DARKO goes through the rigours that most of us undergo, when trying to find the best amplifier match for his loudspeaker - in this case, the JBL L100 Classic & 3 different amplifiers.

The different results might be a story familiar to many of us....

The best amplifier, depends on your loudspeaker.

DarkLantern blog - darklanternforowen.wordpress.com

haha

i switched to amplifier friendly dynamic cone speakers that neatly sidestep this anguish...

You mean, cone speakers are less amplifier-dependent than planar magnetics?

DarkLantern blog - darklanternforowen.wordpress.com

let's say dynamic cone speakers have less quirks.

My electrostats dip to 0.7 ohms impedance, so could be challenging to some amps.

yep my old 57's took out the fuses on my Luxman integrated on many an occasion if I got too carried away with the loud pedal. Apart from one memorable occasion when the output transistors decided to sacrifice themselves to protect the fuses...

The problem was that you had absolutely no warning of it, was just great sounding.... then silence. Anything over 12 o clock and you were into danger territory I found.

Although that said have probably had more issues with my REL subs causing amplifiers to go fizz. Not to sure of reason for this: Floating earth/ bridged output stages ? A Nad 214 power amp I had for a while drove the quads fine but connect to the RELs and pop went the protection cct. Funnily enough a 316 integrated drove the whole lot fine, go figure.

amp makers are so full of bs.

once upon a time i thought a maggie HT system might be a good idea so tried a harman citation 5 channel HT amp.
rated at 100A current. able to drive any load blah blah

2x pairs of maggies presented a stable 4 ohm load

the harman lasted barely a minute before it shut down.

a tiny nad 6x 30wpc, amc 5x100 and rotel 5x100 had no problems.

I ended up with 96-105dB/W loudspeakers... avoiding all this anguish

DarkLantern blog - darklanternforowen.wordpress.com

dave wilson of wilson audio once noted that even high sensitivity speakers could benefit from high powered amplifiers.

Apr 18, 2020 17:05:11 GMT 12 michaelw said:

amp makers are so full of bs.

once upon a time i thought a maggie HT system might be a good idea so tried a harman citation 5 channel HT amp.
rated at 100A current. able to drive any load blah blah

2x pairs of maggies presented a stable 4 ohm load

the harman lasted barely a minute before it shut down.

a tiny nad 6x 30wpc, amc 5x100 and rotel 5x100 had no problems.

I doubt that was anything to do with the spec of the HK amp...

Instead it would have had more to do with just how unreliable HK amps were!

Boomerangs in a cardboard box...

My HK AVR amp has been working fine for about 15 years or so now. 55wpc, never shutdown with the stats.

The SS McIntosh (MC2255) works well my Tannoy Arden 2s

All the later (1975 on) 15" Tannoys enjoy power/current. (Moving quickly away as flea amp owners may vociferously disagree)

My mate’s Tannoy 15” HPDs like an amp with high damping factor to control those big cones.

AMR-iFi R&D

Hi all - hoping for some input to help my upgrade-itus. My home theatre system consists of:

   Well specced  Windows 10 HTPC

    Denon AVR X2400H receiver (95w RMS into 8 ohms, but is reputed to handle 4 ohms ok)

    Linn LP12/Ittok/Troika (with psu and sub-chassis upgrades) through iFi iPhono3 phono preamp

    Paradigm Monitor 11 front main speakers (sensitivity 93db)

    Paradigm centre and surrounds

    SVS SB-2000 sub through MiniDSP-2x4-HD

    Denafrips Ares ii DAC (shipping as we speak)

I'm trialling some Magnepan .7's this week, with a view to replacing the Paradigms. I'm aware that the Denon receiver is the limiting factor here, and I would appreciate some advice - will the Denon's limitations render the trial pointless, or will I get a reasonable idea of the potential of the Magnepans? And what replacement for the Denon would you recommend? The sensitivity of the Magnepans is 86db compared with 93db for the Paradigms, and I like reasonably high sound levels. I have read that the Magnepans work best with class A/B high current amps.

It seems to me that I could either use the Denon's Zone 2 RCA outputs to feed a (yet to be purchased) stereo power amp (Hegel H95 or similar) to drive the Magnepans, or I could replace the Denon with a more capable receiver, if such a beast exists. Your input will be gratefully received

Cheers

Steve

hi steve,

i'd stay with dynamic/cone speakers.
better dynamics, imaging, sensitivity, easer to place correctly etc.

can't help with new avr's, last time i looked they were all pretty the same until you get to the big guns.

do you have a budget in mind ?

Try the Maggie's and report back what you hear.

While cone speakers offer much, the clarity and speed of the .7s might be what you like.

Agree with the comment above, big cones do need a bit to get started & stopped quickly enough.JBl & Tannoy in my experience work better with a bit of welly up-em 500 watts a side of McIntosh power works a treat with my L300's

Not that I have a jot of technical knowledge here so maybe my input is a little squed... BUT.. Id suggest you start with the budget. Decide on what sort of dollars you have or can stretch to FIRST. Theres plenty of stuff available here via TM and Id also try Stereonet in Aus. Pre loved gear will allow you to find maybe a higher specced item. Ok theres always the other side of the thinking that says theres no warranty etc.. Nearly all my gear is pre loved.
All the best

Thanks for the advice guys - budget is the obvious one to confront. I'm a comfortable but not wealthy superannuitant, so money is definitely an issue - and spending limits tend to reflect the gains achieved, within the ill-defined laws of diminishing returns. If I perceive a big gain in audio excellence I'm prepared to spend more than for a minor gain. For example, if I'm blown away by the Magnepans (as I was by a demo of Quad electrostatics in the early 1970's) I'll happily pay the $3300 to buy them. I have never forgotten the shock and thrill of that Quad demo, and I might be chasing a dodgy memory, but there's only one way to find out ;-) And if I have to pay another 3k to drive them as they need to be driven, I'll pay that too. This is my (main) hobby and music is a huge source of pleasure in my life, so I'm happy to pay for 'significant' enhancement of that pleasure.

If, however, there is no "significant" improvement I'll stick with my current system - until I sample something that woos me;-)

Good suggestion regarding pre-loved gear - most of my equipment is pre-loved apart from my sub and the recently purchased phono preamp and DAC

I think I'll ask to audition the Maggies with a suitable amp - the Denon may not do them justice (and I may not be wooed enough to commit ;-)

Id be interested to know about the Quad demo that blew you away back in the 70's as Ive heard quite a few sets of Quads and blown away isnt a phrase I would use to describe the experience. I find the charms of Quads to more of the quietly revealing over time sort that are not immediately apparent upon first listening. Most visitors to mine are decidedly underwhelmed by my radiators....

Have also never heard Maggies in a surround type system either. Be interested to hear what you think. IME Maggies like a big room with a bit of power into them.

Hi Ian - I can't remember the details of the demo - I can't even guarantee that they were Quads - in fact, I think they were (roughly) 6 feet tall by 3 feet wide, definitely electrostatics. I can't even remember the hifi shop I heard them in - I just remember being stunned by the accuracy and transparency of the soundstage, and the lightning fast transients. I was a first year uni student at the time and there was no question of trying to acquire them.

I've arranged with the guy supplying the demo Magnepans to bring a suitable amp as well. My lounge is 24'x12'x8', and I have room to position the speakers as recommended. I'll let you know my impressions.

Perhaps I'm a bit of a Luddite Steve, but the thought of upgrading a surround sound system sounds a bit like an oxymoron. Surround sound is great if you like watching movies but (in my opinion anyway) isn't great for music. Since when did you listen to live music sitting in the middle of the hall with the musicians placed in the corners or scattered about in the audience? God gave us two ears, not 5.1 or 7 and these coupled with our brains gives plenty of directional and spatial information from just two channels. I wouldn't use Maggies in a surround sound application because they radiate from the rear and the front. I have argued before that Maggies (dipole speakers only) should be placed unconventionally against the long wall because they need the space to properly propagate the rear reflections. If placed against the short wall as with conventional speakers, in my opinion they sound congested. Although I don't own a pair I regard the 1.7 as close to the best value for money on the planet. It will work with your Denon but not gloriously and as you already have a sub or subs (I don't particularly like the extra processing involved) that will give you your preferred SPLs. Two subs are better than one. The .7 would be a better bet if you want to hang onto your Denon but then you might like to reevaluate whether to keep with surround sound. So if I was you I would consider selling your Denon and Paradigms (it is kind of axiomatic that 5.1 and 7 speaker sets are mid-fi so as to keep the prices down), buy some 1.7s and seek advice on a suitable pre/phono and power amps. There has not been much on TM lately which is an indicator of retailers struggling a bit. Your best bet may be to offer a cheeky price!

op - who's supplying the maggies ?

never been "blown away" by quads either...

6x3 wouldn't have been a quad probably an acoustat.

lots of space for dipoles is more important than long/short wall.

Thanks for the detailed response Peter. My main objective is not to upgrade my surround sound system, but to upgrade my music listening system. When I listen to music I listen in stereo, and with a separate amp (NOT the Denon) powering the Magnepans, the movie-watching surround system is separate from and not compromising the music system. I don't have (and don't want)the luxury of a separate music room - I WANT to be able to swap from movie/TV/Youtube watching, often with perfectly acceptable surround sound audio, to an exclusively music-listening system without the compromises a home theatre system entails.

I understand that the positioning requirements of the Magnepans may detract from ideal surround sound listening, and this trial will let me know whether I can live with that - I think I probably can as long as my music listening enjoyment improves. If it doesn't it's no go.

By the way, I would sell my Paradigm fronts, as the Magnepans would be replacing them.

It's going to be interesting ;-)

Oct 4, 2020 11:24:54 GMT 12 michaelw said:

never been "blown away" by quads either...

6x3 wouldn't have been a quad probably an acoustat.

Probably not Quads but could've been. ESL57's stacked would be about those dimensions.

But so would the Acoustat 3.

Yes Acoustat rings a bell.
The Maggies are being supplied by Paul from PQ Imports - he's bringing an amp too (don't know which amp)

Paul's a good guy, one of the founding fathers of NZ hi-fi.



Be interesting to hear what amp he brings, he imports Cambridge Audio, Jeff Rowland, Prima Luna, VTL.

Speaking of BIG beautiful panels that could change your life, and also of affordable pre-loved gear, I am really surprised that no one has snapped up these CLSII that were discussed here previously.
These are pretty special speakers, and in the right setting... quite beguiling!

hi Dave - I'm enjoying your old Linn ;-)
Good price on the ML's..a little too big for me (or rather, for my room)
Cheers
Steve

Happy to confirm that Paul Q is a good guy. I knew him when he had the Tokoroa shop and I'd trust his advice re an amp.