Post by cooksferry on Oct 5, 2017 6:41:45 GMT 12
Like a kitten with a ball of wool I'm easily distracted and over the last few days my thoughts have wandered from speaker upgrades to vintage Japanese DD decks. Now I'm not talking about the bread and butter entry level stuff but a bit higher up the chain like the rather nice Yamaha Yp-d8 currently on TM or the big Pioneer here stereoscope.co.nz/?product_cat=turntables. The only experience I've had with a DD table was a Technics about 20 years ago and I can't remember much about it. To be fair so much has changed in my system since then any judgement would be void. I realise that there are possible problems with parts but I'd be interested in how one of the above would compare with my current table. How good are the arms compared with the Project and Wand arms I'm currently using? How well would they handle current moving coil cartridges? There are so many rapid fan boy posting out there that it's a bit hard to get to the truth. On some forums you can be shot down for even considering a modern belt Tt in comparison to a vintage DD. I have no interest in tables like the Technics 1200 (ugly IMO) but the higher end items have a style that modern tables lack.
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Post by sub on Oct 5, 2017 7:56:13 GMT 12
I’m no expert on TTs, but I do have the Yamaha YP-D9 DD TT circa 1978. The arm is a marvel of engineering, and is compatible with MC carts. My reading leads me to believe (see Vintage Knob web pages) that these TTs and arms were built by Micro Seiki, and were built for Yamaha to a high standard.
My budget does not allow me to try exotic carts, and currently use a Denon DL-103R, which to my ears is a good match. I would like to try the AT OC9 when I can afford it. I used that cart to good effect on my LP12 (Ittok arm) several years ago.
Dont know anything about the Pioneer TT for sale by Stereoscope, but I am certain it would be compatible with MC carts. I bought my D9 from Bruce, and while he is a bit expensive, his prices reflect his time and labour restoring the items he sells. He usually offers a 3 month warranty.
I to am watching the D8 for sale on TM, as a semi auto TT appeals to me, but it looks like it has a lot of interest and will probably go for more than I can afford!
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Post by michaelw on Oct 5, 2017 11:30:53 GMT 12
a lot of these vintage tables are seen through rose tinted glasses. in my experience, most of them - outside the handful of statement turntables - really don't sound that good. just like classic cars they will all require maintenance too - that i learnt from my sp10 ownership  so set aside a contingency fund too. to better your current your current project/wand be prepared to spend large.
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Post by cooksferry on Oct 5, 2017 11:42:48 GMT 12
Thanks Michael. I need a moderating voice but when the sun's shining an old mans fancy turns to.......well these days audio gear.
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Post by Citroen on Oct 6, 2017 18:00:19 GMT 12
a lot of these vintage tables are seen through rose tinted glasses. in my experience, most of them - outside the handful of statement turntables - really don't sound that good. just like classic cars they will all require maintenance too - that i learnt from my sp10 ownership so set aside a contingency fund too. to better your current your current project/wand be prepared to spend large. Just cause your Sp10 needed a couple of refreshes doesn't mean they all do! LOL 
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Post by sub on Oct 8, 2017 13:46:20 GMT 12
Hi cooksferry, what about this beauty (www.retrotronics.co.nz)  the same guy has a lovely Ariston RD11 for sale as well.
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Post by Citroen on Oct 8, 2017 15:57:21 GMT 12
Hi cooksferry, what about this beauty (www.retrotronics.co.nz) the same guy has a lovely Ariston RD11 for sale as well. a lot of these vintage tables are seen through rose tinted glasses. in my experience, most of them - outside the handful of statement turntables - really don't sound that good. What Michael said.
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Post by michaelw on Oct 8, 2017 16:34:06 GMT 12
 another tip - have a backup turntable. i do - another technics dd 
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Pundit
Post by neilsan on Oct 8, 2017 19:44:12 GMT 12
My backup for my SP10/2 is my trusty mechanical 401 !!
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Post by Owen Y on Oct 10, 2017 18:48:16 GMT 12
Vintage Japanese DD tables, are they worth pursuing? IMHO any good TT can be very satisfying. Most of us have enjoyed belt drives & the better ones are very nice. DDs differ from Belt drives, but not necessarily any more or less accurate (ie. like real music), just different - like idler or rim-drive TTs, they excel in a different way. The latter non-belt driven TTs are maybe more forward, 'propulsive' & stronger in the 'leading edges' but maybe less 'ambient' or 'extended' in tone, treble clarity & impression of sound-staging, than belt-drives (a generalisation). Belt-drives tend to isolate the motor more from the cartridge & low-level information can be preserved better. Constructionally, DDs tend to be more complex, many with complex speed control circuits & aside from an affect on the sound (some say),more electronics that might come up for maintenance as mentioned. The semi-automatic models also have added complexity, as mentioned. However the Japanese hifi of the mid-70s to 80s was superbly built. Back in the early 2000s, Hifi World magazine were big cheerleaders (editor Jon Marks, David Price) for high-end Japanese DD TTs - eg. Kenwood LO-7D, Sony TT-8000, Technics SP10, Denon DP2550. Interestingly, Price rated Jon's Obsidian SP10 (fully tweaked) 'only' as good as a Michell Orbe (but smoking a fully spec'd LP12, in their opinion). I've had Belt-drives for years, now a Rim-drive, which is refreshing after all those belt drive years. And soon to finally commission a DD that's been awaiting attention for too long. Sometimes cooks, it's nice just to have a change
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Post by Citroen on Oct 10, 2017 19:05:23 GMT 12
Finally getting that SP10 up and running Owen Y?
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Post by Owen Y on Oct 10, 2017 19:24:18 GMT 12
Yes finally - I've had it for an embarrassingly long time. Citroen do you have any DDs amongst your 'brood'?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2017 20:13:04 GMT 12
My word. That SL110 is stunning!!
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Post by Citroen on Oct 10, 2017 20:26:57 GMT 12
The sl110 does look nice doesn't it, but looks aren't everything! Owen Y , skeletal plinth or heavy mass? My first and only DD is the JBE Series 3 that I bought off 12ax7 (who incidentally has one of the best sounding systems I have ever heard). 
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Post by deano1974 on Oct 12, 2017 19:01:10 GMT 12
The sl110 does look nice doesn't it, but looks aren't everything! Owen Y , skeletal plinth or heavy mass? My first and only DD is the JBE Series 3 that I bought off 12ax7 (who incidentally has one of the best sounding systems I have ever heard). Out of curiosity what is 12ax7 system composed of
Manager & Product specialist at Rapallo AV & HI-FI
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Post by Citroen on Oct 13, 2017 17:31:01 GMT 12
I'll let him elaborate if he's a member here, as the details elude me. I was just enjoying the sounds, as brief but memorable a listen as it was.
Needless to say it had 12ax7s (Marantz pre?), vintage Tannoys, and two gorgeous sounding heavy mass turntables. The names of which I hadn't heard of before (one French), and which I can't recall the names of now (early onset Alzheimers?).
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Post by sub on Oct 13, 2017 18:23:40 GMT 12
My word. That SL110 is stunning!! It is! If I had the spare dollars I would buy it in a heart beat, especially with that arm! I note that Fred at Retrotronics has now reduced the price to $1600 - a bargain in my eyes. i don’t know Fred, but have read online references to him often enough. I understand he does great restoration work on vintage gear.
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Post by Citroen on Oct 13, 2017 18:55:18 GMT 12
Fred's done a few repair jobs for me. Highly recommended.
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Post by deano1974 on Oct 13, 2017 19:54:16 GMT 12
Fred now has a very very nice Technics SL1200 in piano black up for sale soon 
Manager & Product specialist at Rapallo AV & HI-FI
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Post by sub on Oct 13, 2017 20:51:13 GMT 12
Yes finally - I've had it for an embarrassingly long time. Citroen Do you have an arm for it? Saw the following on TM, said to be a match for the SP10/2 -
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