Anyone running a mono cartridge and advantages, if any, from just utilising a mono switch.
I had a huge gain in sound quality, especially on old well played lps, from putting a dedicated stereo/mono switch into my system. Nearly all the general back ground noise from 50 plus years of playing and teenage abuse disappeared. .  I have been picking up quite a few of the mono reissues of 60s favorites as well so it's not  as though it would be used for a couple of albums.

I have been looking at something along the lines of  the Audio-Technica AT-MONO3 although I see they're listing a playing life of only 500 hours which isn't a lot.

eu.audio-technica.com/cartridges/AT-MONO3LP

Will be interested to see how you get on here cooks. Its something I looked at myself a while back, I was looking at the 2M mono, but theres a few more about now. I too use a mono switch though curiously enough it seems to work better on my Luxman integrated than colins pre amp. Must have a chat to him about that. I've a fair collection of Mono albums so its probably worth the outlay if there is a significant improvement ?

Have read that playing a stereo LP with a mono cart stuffs the LP. Any truth in this ?

Jul 21, 2017 8:54:53 GMT 12 guitardude said:

Have read that playing a stereo LP with a mono cart stuffs the LP. Any truth in this ?

I believe that's true, something to do with stylus diameter and shape although some of the newer mono carts appear to have moved to a smaller stylus, around 0.6mm?
Older carts may have been nearer 1mm so didn't ride well in the stereo groove plus a lack of vertical compliance may not help.


Not sure if later mono reissues run a narrower groove wall as well. I await an expert to chime in.

There's also the Denon 102 (spherical) & a Grado Mono (elliptical).
(In addition to the Ortofon & AT.)

Am interested myself, but know little about the details - apart from mono groove cuts being lateral only, no vertical movement

DarkLantern blog - darklanternforowen.wordpress.com

Jul 21, 2017 8:54:53 GMT 12 guitardude said:

Will be interested to see how you get on here cooks. Its something I looked at myself a while back, I was looking at the 2M mono, but theres a few more about now. I too use a mono switch though curiously enough it seems to work better on my Luxman integrated than colins pre amp. Must have a chat to him about that. I've a fair collection of Mono albums so its probably worth the outlay if there is a significant improvement ?

Have read that playing a stereo LP with a mono cart stuffs the LP. Any truth in this ?

If you're thinking of using a mono cartridge I'll need to add a second relay on the input to the phono stage, activated by the mono button, so that both left and right phono sections are in parallel. That way the s/n ratio would be greater than if only one channel of the stereo input were plugged in and the mono switch, as it's implemented currently, is on. At the moment pressing mono connects the two channels together electrically after the volume control. 

AMR-iFi R&D

Yes but where does this all stop is my rhetorical question ? A mono cart for playing my Mono records, A spherical styli for playing all the Dynagroove LP's, I'm not even getting into all the different phono EQ's that may be necessary !

So back to the OP, any great advantage in using a Mono cart as opposed to a mono switch ?

Here is some great info from the Ortofon website about mono cartridges. Quote:

"Advantages of using a mono cartridge to play mono records

"If you play a mono record with a stereo cartridge you will not achieve the same signal in the two channels due to imperfections such as crosstalk, noise, phase errors, tracking error, antiskating and distortion. This difference between the channels will result in an unstable and partially fuzzy image. A mono switch, to some extent, can improve this.

"Playing the same record with a mono cartridge will have none of the aforementioned problems, as this cartridge only produces one signal, which afterwards is directed to both channels in the system. This will provide a much more forceful and stable image with a fuller sound.

"Another significant advantage of using a mono cartridge to play mono records is the absence of response to vertical movement. This means that a mono cartridge is essentially impervious to the pinching effect which comes into action when the stylus is pushed vertically upward in very narrow grooves. In addition, the response to dust, dirt and wear will be reduced substantially as the vertical component will not be heard. The final result will be a much more clean and noiseless reproduction of the mono record. These effects simply cannot be achieved merely by the use of a mono switch."

AMR-iFi R&D

Here is an opinion from Syntax on the Audiogon forum:

"Some general information about "modern" Mono Cartridges I used or listened to.
In a way I prefer those from Lyra based on their Design principles ( but a Shelter 501 mono sounds also very good). Lyra mono cartridges use a vertical coil which is only capable of detecting horizontal stylus movements (corresponding to mono groove modulation), and they have TWO identical mono coils to avoid the possibility of ground loops with stereo phono stages or preamps. For me, it is a step ahead ( I had with a cheap Dorian Mono better results than with much more expensive 'mono' carts from other Importers...) . Other cartridge manufacturers may use different methods, like using stereo coils and summing the outputs to derive a mono signal, but in my experience this way is no better than using the "Mono" button on a preamp, and will be limited by how well the two stereo channels match (crosstalk, phase, frequency response, output balance etc.). Generally, my experience here was not positive. Too mediocre. But cheap. For some this is a priority.
Another discussion is the time era from these Records, of course there are differences, but to keep the story simple, I use late 50's ++. I don't think that the differences between the original LPs and modern reissues means that much
for cartridge or stylus design. The commonly voiced concern with "wider mono grooves" has no meaning, in my experience. The most important thing is that the LP groove continues to have a 90-degree cross-section. Older LPs have shallower (and dirtier) groove bottoms, so a stylus that reaches particularly deeply into the groove may cause problems. In my experience, a line-contact stylus with a smaller major radius like 30um may cause problems with older LPs (and this is same for both stereo and mono records), and so for older LPs I would recommend a cartridge that has a somewhat larger major radius 70um, but it is not a general rule. Depends how fanatic you are, in what condition your records are and of course, what kind of Quality your Playback System has. The Lyra Mono have interestingly a different kind of Sound than their Stereo "brothers", more "juicy" with a greater sense of immediacy and presence. Has to do with the two coils, even when the output is only 50% from them...
Summary: Based on the superior tonal colors in the old mono records, much a much better low register the Mono Trip can be really interesting for the discriminated Listener."

AMR-iFi R&D

From what I understand the current crop of mono cartridges have two outputs, one for the left channel and one for the right channel of a stereo phono stage. That means the same signal will be present on the stereo output of the preamp. However since noise from a phono stage is randomly generated there will still be stereo noise from a stereo preamp. Thus it would be prudent to still select the mono switch to on when using a mono cartridge, so that the preamp's stereo noise is converted to mono. Also in the process achieving a 3db noise reduction from the preamp's own generated noise.

AMR-iFi R&D

My amp didn't have a mono switch so I bought a cheap Denon 102, which has horizontal and vertical compliance, so safe for playing stereo lps (which was very important for me in case I accidentally used it on the wrong lps!), uses one coil and is 70um.

On older mono releases the sound is fuller and much quieter. On modern mono releases such as the Beatles reissues I prefer to use my stereo EMT cart.
They are quiet already and the finer stylus profile is good to get to the bottom of the relatively clean groove.

Now my preamp has a mono switch, and brief comparisons using the Denon 102 with it switched from stereo to mono results in a cleaner sound for some reason on those old monos. Can't tell much difference on new monos.

The AT-MONO33 is supposed to be very good for the money, so if you can stretch to that over the MONO3...

That's interesting. How did you connect the one coil of the 102 to the stereo preamp?
A proper mono cartridge has the coil(s) arranged so that they respond only to lateral movements. Compared to a stereo coil geometry connected in mono, it would result in 1/sin45 = 1.414 times the input power to the coil, given the same lateral movement velocity. There would also be no harmonic distortion generated by vertical movement within the generator assembly itself, as there would be in a mono-connected stereo 45deg setup.

AMR-iFi R&D

Not sure of the specifics but this is how it is connected (pic from the net)



And better explained than I could ex www.dagogo.com/denon-dl102-cartridge-review

"The DL102 was designed with the idea of playing both mono and stereo records, but outputting a true mono signal. That may sound odd, but most old mono cartridges from the 1950s and prior had very little vertical compliance, as the vertical compliance was in the tonearm bearings, not the cartridge suspension. Remember those warnings on stereo LPs to avoid mono cartridges? If you played a stereo record with a mono cartridge, the cartridge would actually damage the disc. The DL102 and other, “modern” mono cartridges, like the Ortofon SPU Mono, have vertical and lateral compliance. That’s why the SPU Mono is called that way, because “SPU” meant Stereo Pick Up, and they called the SPU Mono an SPU because it had both vertical and lateral compliance, unlike their older versions that were lateral compliant only.



Okay, enough banter. A true mono cartridge’s pole pieces would form a 90º from the record (parallel with the surface of the record), with the moving coil between the pole pieces. In contrast, the pole pieces of most stereo cartridges are at 45º angles from the surface of the record. This standard, when it was developed, was called the 45/45 stereo system. It was invented/patented by Bell Labs and built by Westrex (Western Electric). It’s a very ingenious system and works remarkably well. The stereo cartridge is equally sensitive to signals that are vertical and lateral. That’s not the case with a true mono cartridge.



In a true mono cartridge, there’s no coil or poll piece present to pick up the vertical motion of the stylus. The net result of having a true mono cartridge is that any signal, as it deviates from purely lateral, will have a gradually diminishing output. Theoretically, any signal generated in the vertical plane, at 0º and 180º, shouldn’t be reproduced at all (there should be a null). That’s not the case, since things aren’t perfect in the real world. But, if you measure the response of a lateral signal and vertical signal from a mono test record, the vertical signal should be 25-30 dB lower in strength than the lateral signal."

Good review of the Denon. Interesting, the bit about any signal deviation from lateral is considered 100% distortion. And where too much vertical compliance can cause FM distortion (frequency modulation). I wonder if the reviewer is talking about arm-cartridge resonance or vertical compliance damping, or compliance damping in general.
Anyway, so the 102 should be loaded at 1k according to its maker. Are you able to, or have you already, set the loading to that? I guess at the moment it would be loaded at 23.5k, as it's driving both left and right MM inputs of 47k each. If the loading isn't 1k, you could perhaps just solder or add a small 1k resistor across the cartridge pin clips.

AMR-iFi R&D

The Decca stereo cartridge looks like a good candidate for mono recordings due to its unique coil arrangement. It has a lateral coil and two vertical coils. The vertical coils for left and right are connected in series with the lateral coil which only responds to lateral stylus movement. So a proper mono cartridge could be had out of a Decca by connecting only the lateral coil to the preamp.
On this cartridge the lateral compliance is greater than the vertical compliance, but I understand modern Deccas to have better vertical compliance than older ones.
Here is an article about the Decca from Stereophile:



PHONO CARTRIDGE REVIEWS

Decca Mark V phono cartridge

J. Gordon Holt | Jun 8, 2017 | First Published: May 1, 1974
image: www.stereophile.com/images/styles/600_wide/public/74deccamarkv.promo_.jpg?itok=J3tMQ8uS



The Decca Mark V is the latest version of that English firm's unique "tip-sensing" stereo-matrix-ing pickups. The "matrixing" apellation refers to the fact that the Decca pickups do not use 45°–45° sensing coils, but use instead a combination of vertical and lateral-sensing coils. There is a single coil for lateral sensing, with its pole pieces brought down next to the tip. This is the tip-sensing feature, whose major attribute is that the stylus motions don't have to be conveyed along the length of an armature before reaching the transducing pole pieces. Thus there is virtually no possibility of the stylus vibrations being modified through flexing of the armature prior to their transduction into audio signals.
Then there are two vertical-sensing coils with pole pieces located directly above the top of the armature (fig.1). These are not tip-sensing, but since the armature is a straight, vertical rod, the only thing that could modify tip vibrations on the way to the pole piece is longitudinal compression of the rod, which is likely to be of negligible magnitude.

image: www.stereophile.com/images/574Deccafig1.jpg

574Deccafig1.jpg

It is important to note though that, while the lateral sensing arrangement is push-pull (the stylus approaches one pole piece as it leaves the other), the vertical sensing is single-ended (becoming more sensitive as the stylus lifts up towards the polepiece). In theory at least, this must cause more waveform distortion from vertical modulations than from lateral ones. More about this later.

One end of the lateral coil is connected internally to the connection between the two vertical coils, with the latter connected in opposite electrical polarity. And here's what happens:

Whenever the stylus traces a 45° stereo modulation, representing one channel of recorded information, it moves both laterally and vertically (fig.2). Sensing takes place in both the lateral and vertical coils, but since the vertical ones are out-of-phase, only one will match the polarity of the signal from the lateral coil and produce output. The other will cancel the lateral-coil signal, producing no output. Result: stereo separation.


Read more at www.stereophile.com/content/decca-mark-v-phono-cartridge#dRGGl1v5kftGmSCY.99

AMR-iFi R&D

I recently purchased a relatively entry level true mono cart the Miyajima Kotetu, there are some great reviews online, its absolutely fantastic, definitely better than my stereo cart and mono switch.
I haven't read thru all this thread, but the Kotetu does not sum the output and connects to the SUT with left and right, it only picks up the horizontal movement, using the mono switch on the phono stage is not required.
Apart from adding some spacer weight to add compliance, set up was straight forward and definitely worth the investment.

Thanks coleus,

That's exactly the kind of well informed opinion we need. What arm and table are you using BTW ?

Thanks coleus - the Miyajima mono carts are interesting - esp their attractively-priced entry-level Kotetu model.

PS. You mean horiz stylus movement?

DarkLantern blog - darklanternforowen.wordpress.com

Jul 27, 2017 14:02:18 GMT 12 Owen Y said:

Thanks coleus - the Miyajima mono carts are interesting - esp their attractively-priced entry-level Kotetu model.

PS. You mean horiz stylus movement?

Yes horizontal, edited lol, the cart uses vertical axis concentration

Jul 27, 2017 13:49:02 GMT 12 guitardude said:

Thanks coleus,

That's exactly the kind of well informed opinion we need. What arm and table are you using BTW ?

Hey guitardude, I have the Kotetu on a Wand arm with the 5 gram weight/spacer supplied by Simon, the turntable is a modified Rega P25, not sure I can call it a P25 anymore, only the wood plinth remains.

Miyajima cartridges look interesting in general...

AMR-iFi R&D

After much dithering and procrastination finally pushed the go button this morning and ordered an Audio Technica AT33 mono cartridge. Reviews all seem positive and with it being a LOMC there wont be much shagging about making changes with the phono stage .
One of the reasons for adding a 2nd tone arm was to have a dedicated mono cart fitted and I figure the AT33 will give me a fair crack without breaking the bank.
Order placed with a seller in Germany and should be around just under NZ$400 shipped. I figure a seller with 100% feedback and over 111,000 feedback will be a safe purchase.

Good on you cooks. Please let us know how you get along.

Also v interested in how the AT33 Mono sounds, cooksferry

DarkLantern blog - darklanternforowen.wordpress.com

Lenco-Heaven has a huge section on Mono stuff...

www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?board=18.0

Aug 10, 2017 10:49:37 GMT 12 jon said:

Lenco-Heaven has a huge section on Mono stuff...

www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?board=18.0

Yes, been there, and many other stops along the way debating choices.

Lyra Dorian mono cart, which sounds fantastic.

when did you get that ?

Feb 4, 2018 18:37:51 GMT 12 Citroen said:

Lyra Dorian mono cart, which sounds fantastic.

Nice

Very recently.

Not sure if I can play stereo lps with it without ruining them. But if I can I really would like to.

Sounds really dynamic, clear and solid. Scratches, lp noise etc seem to fade in the background as inconsequential artifacts. They are clearly there but hey, they don't seem matter with this cart!

Anyone interested in a lightly used Denon DL-102 mono cart? I think I paid about $350 shipped for it