Member
MLV Aug 14, 2022 20:44:35 GMT 12
Post by phred on Aug 14, 2022 20:44:35 GMT 12
Has anyone used MLV (Mass Loaded Vinyl) to correct room resonances? Looking to control bass (< 100 Hz)
Most so called "Bass Traps" seem to be more akin to wide band absorbers with little effect below 125 Hz
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MLV Aug 15, 2022 11:15:30 GMT 12
- Edited Aug 15, 2022 11:24:45 GMT 12 by michaelw
Post by michaelw on Aug 15, 2022 11:15:30 GMT 12
Mass loaded vinyl. When I stacked books on my warped records to try to flatten them I didn't notice any effect on room resonances
Same books reside in random spots in the room - no bass problems
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Pundit
Post by peter0c on Aug 15, 2022 14:29:55 GMT 12
No I haven't used it but it does seem to be based on sound logic. There are a few things to try first if you already haven't. Speaker placement is key. Walk around your room to find where there is the least boominess - try your speakers (just one speaker playing will do fine) in different positions in the room whilst doing this to see to see if that changes things - which might be the best place to put your speakers. If this placement is wildly inappropriate because of room size, normal sitting position and so on, leave your speakers in the usual short axis and away from the wall and rear - Google 'Cardas' recommended speaker placement - but do this with a slight asymmetry i.e. not the identical position in the room. Add carpet and soft furnishings e.g. couches and wall hangings. Sorting out boominess and reflections is a compromise and might adversely effect the imaging. You won't get everything right! Only after this would I contemplate bass traps and vinyl loading.
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MLV Aug 15, 2022 14:39:07 GMT 12
Post by jon on Aug 15, 2022 14:39:07 GMT 12
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MLV Aug 15, 2022 14:39:50 GMT 12
Post by jon on Aug 15, 2022 14:39:50 GMT 12
Until Phred mentioned it, I had no idea what it was.
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MLV Aug 15, 2022 15:06:56 GMT 12
- Edited Aug 15, 2022 15:07:45 GMT 12 by michaelw
Post by michaelw on Aug 15, 2022 15:06:56 GMT 12
Ditto, does MLV even work as resonance control ? PeterOC is spot on, nothing worse than an overdamped room. A little liveliness is good
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MLV Aug 15, 2022 18:31:30 GMT 12
via mobile
Post by Citroen on Aug 15, 2022 18:31:30 GMT 12
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Pundit
MLV Aug 15, 2022 19:20:20 GMT 12
Post by simonb on Aug 15, 2022 19:20:20 GMT 12
Used to be Barium loaded damping, they are either not mentioning that or have a less toxic version now (Those awake during Chemistry lessons at school might like to correct me here). Never the less I had some which was quite good. In the middle of a house build which includes a room labeled 'Music Room' on the plans (It is, but also office / spare bedroom) so interested in peoples thoughts of felt and permanent room treatments. Eboss seem to have a number of interesting products.
Simon Brown Design Build Listen Ltd, Makers of The Wand Analogue Products Distributor of Hana Cartridges
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MLV Aug 15, 2022 20:00:02 GMT 12
- Edited Aug 15, 2022 20:04:07 GMT 12 by RdM
Post by RdM on Aug 15, 2022 20:00:02 GMT 12
Exactly. In the apartment complex I am in, weirdly the architecture changes at the top floor from two apartments per landing, front to back single floor facing W (lounge & front bedroom) to E (galley kitchen & back bedroom) with although gib stud and no insulation internally between lounge kitchen or bedrooms etc.- there is a 15cm concrete "party" wall between flats, which extends out to separate the west facing balconeys too.
But up above where I am on the penultimate floor, there are four doors on the landing. Instead of 5A & 5B, there are 6A-6D. They are all 2 storied;- 6A & 6D look out cheaply and unfortunately into the interior carpark, with narrow balconies, but 6A & 6B look expansively west with wider than my own balconies above my western end one.
The point is - as affirmed from a neighbour upstairs and across the courtyard in similar - on those levels, the concrete divider stops, and they only have gib & framing between flats! Likely without internal insulation. Leaky audio. Human noises.
Probably in breach of some new regulation, flats are surely +30yr old at a guess, but while I have concrete party walls, the upstairs layout is such that their dining room area part of above me, their open plan 1st floor, is right above my bedroom, about 2m above and the concrete floor pan acts like a big bass drum diaphragm, so them above stomping around digging in heels particularly as a style of walking, strutting even, hits the slab (despite through carpet and underlay) with quite a lot of kg per sq cm.
That careless bump bomp boomp footing above my bedroom is an instant adrenaline wake-up, as though a primeval dinosaur alert! No good for naps or lying in late to wake up to.
Some discussions, as I've had over multiple new upstairs neighbours, and now I wonder if they've even changed again. So I'll have to introduce the concept to their innocence yet again...
It's interesting that some lizard brain part of oneself jerks instantly awake with overhead footsteps, but it's a nuisance that they exist in the first place through bad or poor sound isolation.
But again, upstairs on the top floors above me, they have even much worse separation between apartments, which perhaps even contravenes some codes. I'd have to look them up later.
Apartment buyers or renters beware, indeed.
Cheers!
Just thoughts!
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MLV Aug 15, 2022 20:20:16 GMT 12
simonb likes this
Post by RdM on Aug 15, 2022 20:20:16 GMT 12
In the middle of a house build which includes a room labeled 'Music Room' on the plans (It is, but also office / spare bedroom) so interested in peoples thoughts of felt and permanent room treatments.
At the very least you would consider what insulation material between possibly double gib walls?
There is plenty on the net about isolating studios. Even down to floating floors.
So, research ... consider what you might do, what might be possible, I'd think.
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Member
MLV Aug 15, 2022 21:13:04 GMT 12
- Edited Aug 15, 2022 21:17:06 GMT 12 by phred
Post by phred on Aug 15, 2022 21:13:04 GMT 12
If building consider using something other than plasterboard/drywall as the internal lining - a colleague has imported a plastic (ish) material.
To understand what this looks like start with a 3/4 mm coloured or patterned/embossed interior surface, then there is a honeycombed air gap of around 12mm finished by a different thickness flat.surface. This material is lighter than drywall, easy to install, very fire resistant is strong (Hit it with a hammer and it does not flinch) and light Seems to be a good insulator of heat and noise If I owned the apartment above I would use this or a similar product on the ceiling. If having to use drywall on internal walls use two different thicknesses separated by some sort of glue that will hold the drywall sheets apart (People reference "green glue").
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Member
MLV Aug 15, 2022 21:38:05 GMT 12
Post by phred on Aug 15, 2022 21:38:05 GMT 12
Thanks to all above. I have measured and moved the speakers, will happily admit that both speaker and listening positions are not optimised for audio. However the room is multifunctional and drastically altering the layout is not a likely outcome. Please be aware the speakers are corrected flat tonally and then given a tweak to to suit my own preference. (It is not unusual to see 20 plus db of room gain at some low frequencies)
Looking to tidy up some of the low frequency room reflections. Tending to shy away from foam/fibreglass traps as they would need to be over a meter thick to deal with the bass. MLV appeals as is could potentially reduce the side wall reflections (One side of the room has windows and the MLV could be sewn into the curtains.)
My other concern is the road near my house is due to be widened - houses next door are to be removed and the project is likely to take years rather than weeks. (Stage two of the Pakuranga - Botany roading development). If MLV works it should help deaden the noise of house destruction and road works.
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MLV Aug 15, 2022 22:02:52 GMT 12
Post by RdM on Aug 15, 2022 22:02:52 GMT 12
Looking to tidy up some of the low frequency room reflections. Tending to shy away from foam/fibreglass traps as they would need to be over a meter thick to deal with the bass. MLV appeals as is could potentially reduce the side wall reflections (One side of the room has windows and the MLV could be sewn into the curtains.) My other concern is the road near my house is due to be widened - houses next door are to be removed and the project is likely to take years rather than weeks. (Stage two of the Pakuranga - Botany roading development). If MLV works it should help deaden the noise of house destruction and road works. From my brief glance at the product, I thought it looked intended to be glued to or attached somehow as or to a wall lining to dampen its vibrations, not to be hanging in the breeze like a curtain... Mind you I have hung dual lined curtains behind the speakers on my long side lounge wall opposite my neighbours, just to damp internal reflections. Outer is red/maroon velvet drapes, theatrical.
Being in the CBD, I've had to live with construction noise of two adjacent apartment blocks, one after the other, front and back, each taking 18+ mths, the nearest a noisy crane 6 days a week, 11-12hrs/day. Thankfully the last one has recently been completed. But that's outside noise, not internal music generation.
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