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Post by clothears on Mar 18, 2022 20:16:05 GMT 12
Hi peeps, Love my LS50W2. They reside in a bedroom that I have my gaming pc setup in. They never feel lacking in bass, but I’m curious about these promises of openi up soundstages that seem to accompany some sub YouTube postings. With eyes firmly focused on music I want a fast sub that blends unintrusively with the LS50. I watched Steve Gutenberg’s recent review of the REL TZeroMk3 and thought that this sound3 like the sub for me. And it’s under a $1k. Buy 2. The LS50 has a sub out on each speaker. Oddly when I talk to the retailers they keep pushing me towards the higher models. such at the T5. my room is only 3.5 by 4.5 with 3.5m ceilings. I’ve no experience with subs at all. Would appreciate your thoughts (maybe). Happy listening.
Making your world a better place, by staying at home most of the time.
Diplomacy challenged Electronic Security Systems Integrator
91 posts
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Post by cartridgeguyonline on Mar 20, 2022 17:07:39 GMT 12
Long time REL user here. Currently my pair in use with a set of ESL57s. Must admit that I like the idea of a mono sub per ch but some users seem to prefer 2 stereo subs. Mine are the R205. Not sure where they would be in the current line up but 10 inch drivers and 200w amps. The curious thing is that just listening to the subs by themselves you are hard pressed to hear them doing anything but when in the system they have a great effect.
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Pundit
Post by neilsan on Mar 20, 2022 19:04:59 GMT 12
Been using an REL Strata 3 since 1990. Sometimes don't notice if it's off until some really low bass kicks in. So it's adjusted right down but does affect the soundstage etc even then. Using it with Image 412/2's and very happy with it.
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Pundit
Post by peter0c on Mar 20, 2022 20:20:53 GMT 12
I have a philosophical objection to traditional subwoofers. This is because the drive units in them are necessarily driven lower than their design bandwidth in the typical small cube box. This and requires about 30db of boost or equalisation to do this just as did Bose 901s?. I can accept them as a necessary evil in the above KEF example and where space is a premium but I don't find them as musical as say a properly executed transmission line subwoofer. Heresy?
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Post by cartridgeguyonline on Mar 21, 2022 5:55:41 GMT 12
I dont think I have ever seen or heard a transmission line subwoofer, but from my memory of transmission line KEFs and the suchlike, im not sure I would want to either....
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Member
Post by clothears on Apr 1, 2022 14:24:30 GMT 12
Hi Peeps. Ignored the retailers advice and bought a pair of REL TzeroMk3's. So far I like them although I'm not confident that they're dialled in yet. I'll post pics once I get some custom cables done and have the setup looking presentable.
Making your world a better place, by staying at home most of the time.
Diplomacy challenged Electronic Security Systems Integrator
91 posts
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Member
Post by clothears on Apr 1, 2022 14:30:21 GMT 12
Long time REL user here. Currently my pair in use with a set of ESL57s. Must admit that I like the idea of a mono sub per ch but some users seem to prefer 2 stereo subs. Mine are the R205. Not sure where they would be in the current line up but 10 inch drivers and 200w amps. The curious thing is that just listening to the subs by themselves you are hard pressed to hear them doing anything but when in the system they have a great effect. Hi Mr Cart. Could you please expand on what you've said? I'm presumably using a sub per channel, but what would a 2 stereo sub setup look like? Build quality (external) and packaging of the REL looks excellent, and if I ever start using my HT setup again they would be my first Brand preference for a sub. Catcha later.
Making your world a better place, by staying at home most of the time.
Diplomacy challenged Electronic Security Systems Integrator
91 posts
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Post by RdM on Apr 1, 2022 21:18:31 GMT 12
Long time REL user here. Currently my pair in use with a set of ESL57s. Must admit that I like the idea of a mono sub per ch but some users seem to prefer 2 stereo subs. Mine are the R205. Not sure where they would be in the current line up but 10 inch drivers and 200w amps. The curious thing is that just listening to the subs by themselves you are hard pressed to hear them doing anything but when in the system they have a great effect. Hi Mr Cart. Could you please expand on what you've said? I'm presumably using a sub per channel, but what would a 2 stereo sub setup look like?
I thought his answer was quite clear;- he might have written '2 subs in stereo' but it's clear vs two subs in mono, ie sharing the same LFE channel in the same physical position vs a stereo feed to each.
As for positioning ('look like') if you read Floyd Toole -Sound Reproduction - Loudspeakers and Rooms (Elsevier, Focal Press 2009) p.221 - you can see that two can cancel room nodes, placed as per diagram.
They may not sound louder than one, because they are working to do that cancelling. That works if they are being fed the same LFE signal. If you have just one, it would seem best placed in the middle.
As for sub bass in stereo, with different signals the cancellation won't be so effective, I gather from these notes, pp.238-9.
Yes, I have tracks with a bass in each channel, but I think we'd be localising them spatially by their harmonics rather than may as well be mono fundamentals?
Herb Reichert speculated briefly on positioning a pair of the Kef KC62 subs in his review here:
The Tzero MkIII you've bought are clearly described as suitable for small rooms ... by REL. (Is that your case?)
To 'dial them in' I think you'd ideally want a signal generator or other source of sweep tones, and some way to measure the frequency roll-off of sats and subs... Crudely perhaps by ear if you only had the former. Read the Stereophile review for how he laboriously did it.
Hope that helps. Just my 2c worth.
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Post by RdM on Apr 2, 2022 17:46:44 GMT 12
The Tzero MkIII you've bought are clearly described as suitable for small rooms ... by REL. (Is that your case?)
Sorry, I see now in going back to the original thread that you had described your room dimensions. I'd just responded quickly from Recent Posts earlier.
Anyway, I see from their blog as it were there is also this:
He's in front of a pair of T5/X I thought but now I can't see it in the transcript.
A bit ambiguous as to whether he's talking dual mono or actual stereo for the subs? (As per Floyd Toole above.)
Now back at your original post, LS50, I see now that utilising their sub outs would put the subs in stereo.
Not sure how you could experiment with that situation vs subs mono, maybe if subs driven from the amp?
And then, crossover complexities ... if the amp had a mono sub output. Just writing as thinking aloud!
Room placement would seem to be the major thing as well as dialing in levels and low pass - high pass crossover to the subs.
Best of luck. Cheers! ;=})
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Post by cartridgeguyonline on Apr 2, 2022 18:53:04 GMT 12
RDM has explained the stereo subs thing nicely, in terms of dialling in what I do is this. (also well explained in the REL manual. I pick a CD with lots of low bass. The Jurassic Park soundtrack is a classic or Grace Jones Nightclubbing. Adjust volume on your system to a usual loud setting and adjust sub volume to halfway then crossover so that you can just hear sub, then turn down sub volume to suit. Using this method subs will prob still be too loud so adjust over several albums. Mine also seem louder from cold....
Cheers
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