Things in USA got a bit heated & political recently about China & Chinese goods - which is maybe partially why Steve Guttenberg AUDIOPHILIAC got so much 'pushback' about China-manufactured hi-fi.

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On the other hand, some punters think that some China-manufactured products are over-priced, should be cheaper....

I'm confused.

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I believe my Krell amp was made in China. No complaints from me....

I have & do own plenty of well built & great sounding Chinese gear.

A friend recently bought a pair of high end & well known American valve mono blocks directly from the builder. Got them home & they sounded like sh#t. Weeks of playing around with tube combinations & still sounded rubbish. He opened them up & found they had no ground at all from the main 3 point power connection. The amps had been shipped non-compliant dangerous & sounding like crap. He then had to self install the required wiring (sent from the supplier). Sounding better but still no where near as good as the amps he already has locally built. To suggest Chinese=bad USA=good is naive & racist.

I dont think there is any argument that the perception is that Chinese made equipment is of a lower standard. Many manufacturers have ranges of products where their premium product is made in their home country and their lesser ranges are made Elsewhere.

I am arguing exactly that Chinese product is not necessarily of a lower standard at any performance & price point. The generalisation that because its is made in China it is of a lower standard is incorrect.

Possibly but the perception isnt, and its perception that matters in the long term.

I don't think that this criticism applies to Line Magnetic. Superbly built and high quality component inside. Came with LM845 output valves and I'm going to change for WE242C or GE211 this coming wet Sunday. The bias adjustments are external which is a nice touch for tube rolling. Cunning people these Chinese.

Re the OP.

Yep, I’m very happily on my third Chinese SET amp.
The first was a Cayin 300B that was favourably reviewed by the late Art Dudley of Stereophile, about a dozen or so years ago.
That was a brilliant amp, and a relative bargain compared to similar Japanese/British SET offerings.

Some of the Cayin team morphed into Line Magnetic. Then more recently, split into two divisions: Zhuhai and Foshan / Analog Sound (specialising in WE replicas).
I have to agree, that the LM amps benefit from tube rolling... but the stock tubes are functional. And with some premium chinese glass jars, they can really sing!
Glad to read that peter0c has jumped on the bandwagon... Welcome aboard! 😀

I think we just need to think back to the (let’s be kind) err “patriotic” way that classic British turntables were revered, and how their DD Japanese rivals were dismissed.
How has that narrative changed over the past five years? Perceptions, prejudice... you say tomato, I say try one for yourself.

Nov 28, 2020 9:04:10 GMT 12 raveydave said:

Some of the Cayin team morphed into Line Magnetic. Then more recently, split into two divisions: Zhuhai and Foshan / Analog Sound (specialising in WE replicas).

Thanks raveydave - that's informative.

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Rachel from GRANT FIDELITY (Nth American importer of Consonance, Analog Sound, Psvane tubes, etc) was interviewed by Steve Guttenberg AUDIOPHILIAC in 2019:

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Glad to hear that I have jumped on the SE bandwagon eh Dave? An outrageous claim! I've been on it forever. Still got an AN300B which I will probably dispose of. My keepers are a FW SIT-3 and Ecofan 6A3 unless the LM beats them with NOS tubes. I do like the grunt of the Line Magnetic though but not the weight. I have to summons my coolie to move it. I agree about the value for money Cayin and think that Melody also made a look-alike 300B.

Lol. Of course I meant the LM bandwagon, not SET! 😇

My Matrix Sabre dac is doing the job ok... its been compared to a seriously expensive German and along with its owner we coupdnt tell any difference

Crying time tonight. The Line Magnetic that I have uses 845 valves with a longer pin length. The NOS GE211 and WE242C that I kept for a rainy day have short pins. Bugger. I'll just listen to music then. To comfort myself I built a fan for the wonderful Ecofan 6A3 which owners agree runs pretty hot, using a 12 volt computer fan running on 6 volts for quietness. At least this works. When I asked Murray about the heat he replied that his transformers were potted in wax at about 160 degrees C. Apparently only if this runs do I have a problem. Goody oh.

Disappointing, but...
211 are diff’rent spec’d tubes than 845 though, innit!

Aren’t you taking this whole Ecofan “FAN-boy” thing a bit too far? 🤣

I did a whole lot of research while looking for some NOS RCA 845, but pushed the button on the premium (Chinese) WE845 variants.
Not that Western Electric ever made an 845... but these high quality replicas do sound great!

I have been travelling to China every few years for the last 15 years. And followed Chinese Hifi for all that time. After my trip in 2006, I realised (saw) some of the nicest things in the world are all manufactured there. Different levels of design and QC, but most of what we import to our countries is of low value and high mark up.
I'm Chinese, born in NZ and so sick of the bad rap that I decided I would construct my audio systems around Chinese brands till I found the sound I was looking for to replace my plinius 8150 and proac speakers (which I dearly loved and still miss a bit).
First I bought a 1704 dac which came with an outboard power supply. Then there were headphones, and I bought some of the first well respected BA driver items from Sound magic. .I found a transformer volume control from Line Magnetic which improved my 8150
Then came a class AB amp and some speakers from hivi. Then a line magnetic 518 just before it was reviewed in stereophile. A tt from Amari, and some gear from Jasmine audio.
A single driver from Mark Audio and a built FHXL cabinet.
An e1da dac (designed by a Russian living in China).
Another single driver, a p610 copy.
And recently a cheap push pull pentode amp with a Bluetooth receiver, which sounds great except the volume pot needs changing (not sure what I'm gonna do about that).
Some tubes from full music, some Beijing pentodes 4p1s from 50 years ago.
I can tell you, its a lot of fun!
I have an Arcam avr made in China from 2005. I'm not sure where ncores are made, but they're probably the only things left that aren't Chinese.
There's a budget for everything over there. I can't afford the expensive stuff anymore.
There are some obvious copies of tannoy and B&W at the moment. However, I do not know whether they are legitimately made by the companies that bought them out or built under licence. I heard B&W was repurchased recently.
Who would have thought that some of the best cabinet manufacturing in China was done by Hewlett Packard!

I've found there is some great Chinese equipment and there is rubbish and the price usually, but not always, corresponds.

Have a look at the AM Audio gear for example. The RT2 preamp sounds as good as it looks and would embarrass a lot of the usual suspects. Can be had here in Aus for a lot less than in the UK, US or Europe.

It’s about electrical safety for me about Chinese products. Make sure the chassis of mains-operated equipment is grounded at the mains before operating in NZ and Aus (and in UK), and that the wiring is of good quality. The electrical standards can be lax with some less well known companies. You won’t have issues with larger companies like Line Magnetic and Shanling though, and quite a few UK (and other western countries) companies have their manufacturing arm in China (Quad, Leak etc).

AMR-iFi R&D

A not all roses though. My latest amp has a channel imbalance due to the potentiometer. The Bluetooth receiver built in sounds amazing though. And via the phone it is really easy to use a bit of eq. Has changed my perception of Bluetooth completely. And it's not even the best chip in it.

Potentiometer channel imbalance is a common problem, even with highly regarded Japanese brands like ALPs.

Typically, it occurs at low vol settings, when the pot wiper is down at the end of the wiper track.
And especially with physically small construction pots - as you can imagine, getting tolerances right in small dimensions.

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Totally spot on, Owen. It's a small pot and I do like to listen at low volume. Temporarily, I have chucked in my transformer volume control which has fixed it but I like to use the internal Bluetooth receiver as it allows me to change things with my phone.

I might have to bite the bullet and try and change the pot. Or get someone to do it. Was never keen to get into a tube amp for obvious reasons.

Dec 2, 2020 20:28:13 GMT 12 colinf said:

It’s about electrical safety for me about Chinese products. Make sure the chassis of mains-operated equipment is grounded at the mains before operating in NZ and Aus (and in UK), and that the wiring is of good quality. The electrical standards can be lax with some less well known companies. You won’t have issues with larger companies like Line Magnetic and Shanling though, and quite a few UK (and other western countries) companies have their manufacturing arm in China (Quad, Leak etc).

This is exactly what I was talking about 2 months ago a friend received his hi end valve mono blocks from a respected American supplier shipped from USA with no mains grounding at all. They sounded terrible & he had to have wiring shipped from the supplier & install it himself to make them safe & make them sound ok. Brand is not any guarantee of quality regardless of where it is constructed. 

Dec 3, 2020 7:02:47 GMT 12 beeman said:

Dec 2, 2020 20:28:13 GMT 12 colinf said:

It’s about electrical safety for me about Chinese products. Make sure the chassis of mains-operated equipment is grounded at the mains before operating in NZ and Aus (and in UK), and that the wiring is of good quality. The electrical standards can be lax with some less well known companies. You won’t have issues with larger companies like Line Magnetic and Shanling though, and quite a few UK (and other western countries) companies have their manufacturing arm in China (Quad, Leak etc).

This is exactly what I was talking about 2 months ago a friend received his hi end valve mono blocks from a respected American supplier shipped from USA with no mains grounding at all. They sounded terrible & he had to have wiring shipped from the supplier & install it himself to make them safe & make them sound ok. Brand is not any guarantee of quality regardless of where it is constructed. 

No you have cocked up beeman: what you are trying to say is that country of manufacture is no guarantee of quality. Brand is certainly some guarantee of quality otherwise why would brands spend so much time and effort on their Brand and reputation. eg Macintosh. 

Dec 4, 2020 6:42:39 GMT 12 cartridgeguyonline said:

Dec 3, 2020 7:02:47 GMT 12 beeman said:

This is exactly what I was talking about 2 months ago a friend received his hi end valve mono blocks from a respected American supplier shipped from USA with no mains grounding at all. They sounded terrible & he had to have wiring shipped from the supplier & install it himself to make them safe & make them sound ok. Brand is not any guarantee of quality regardless of where it is constructed. 

No you have cocked up beeman: what you are trying to say is that country of manufacture is no guarantee of quality. Brand is certainly some guarantee of quality otherwise why would brands spend so much time and effort on their Brand and reputation. eg Macintosh. 

No cockup my end - the brand I am describing is well known & respected. The product shipped was dangerous, sounded bad & from America. I am saying what I am saying "Country of origin & Brand is no guarantee". As per the original assertion that Chinese it will be lower quality & American it will be higher quality in the current globalized market is incorrect

This is a pointless discussion.

I dont think that there is any argument that Chinese goods are perceived as being of lower quality, whether that perception is correct or not.

Your argument that Chinese manufactured product is of equal or better standard I do not dispute as I have no basis of forming an opinion either way. I too have had shockingly unreliable US manufactured product (take a bow Quicksilver...)

Yes, brand is usually an indicator of quality, with the caveat you get what you pay for, as a cheap Kef spkr will not give the performance of the top of the range.

Would I buy Chinese made Hifi? That depends. There is no doubt that many Chinese brands are top quality, which reflects the fact that there are probably more Chinese Hifi fanatics than the adult population of nz! If I won lotto I would seriously consider KEF Blades, which is a Chinese owned company, but would look at nz made amplification, such as Pure Audio (which possibly has some Chinese made components!?)

I do tend to boycott products from sources I disapprove of, eg Sanitarium, Coca Cola brands, and Cadbury. Which deprives me of some products, eg Schweppes tonic! I have little respect for the dictatorship that rules China, and in everyday shopping try to avoid Chinese made. Which can be difficult, eg my iPad is made there i think!

Yes we are all free to make our own purchasing decisions: with regard to Hifi in my case that is vintage equipment or cartridge brands that I am the agent for, or for Artisan crafted HiFi handmade to my own requirements which may or may not include Chinese components. For the record I have no hesitation in using chinese manufactured valves although my current manufacture favourites are JJ which are made in Slovakia I think.

A lot of modern semiconductors are made in China to extremely high standards, so there’s a good chance the device you own has some in it. As parts manufacturers could be anywhere in the world, where equipment is designed and assembled with them may have little correlation with their quality.
I wouldn’t boycott Chinese goods specifically. I’d boycott because I’d learnt of inappropriate manufacturing conditions, whether human or otherwise, which could happen anywhere globally. eg. battery hen egg and chicken products, etc.
There are loads of passionate Chinese audiophiles like us and to be able to listen to their wares is good! You just need to watch that the electrics are in order for use here though, and that goes for the US etc as well.

AMR-iFi R&D