Post by Owen Y on Aug 1, 2020 12:23:22 GMT 12
I would urge all TT owners to support your TT (DD or belt drive or other) on a something rotationally & laterally rigid. (See DIY plinth for TECHNICS SP-10MKII thread.) Even if the TT is a suspended chassis type, why sit it on a wobbly 'frame of reference'? With my Linn Sondek previously, at one stage I used a DIY 'sub-table' (which sat atop a heavy furniture cabinet) - the LP12 (on its rubber feet) appreciated the 'decoupling'. My well-used Sondek 'sub-table - hardboard stiffened with ribs under, sitting on plastic 'spikes' - continuing Ivor's 'light and Rigid' theme. 
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Post by Owen Y on Aug 1, 2020 12:37:44 GMT 12
Generally, with all TTs, I suggest trying supporting on 'cones' (points or spikes essentially), instead of the generic rubber feet. Either upward or downward pointing, use 3 of them & experiment with placement around the rim of the TT plinth. If the TT has special 'isolation' feet of its own (eg Rega), try cones under a 'sub-table' of ply etc (as above sub-table), or directly under the TT plinth. Place a coin or thin/hard (eg credit card) material under if you wish, if down-facing onto furniture. These cones (aluminium & plastic) date back to 1980s-90s (may have come from the boys at Audio Excellence). If you can't get any, use 3 pcs of something else rigid that 'connects' to the TT plinth. 
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Post by michaelw on Aug 1, 2020 18:08:09 GMT 12
That's fancy. I follow the simple receipe put forth by Enid Lumley TAS and use a "sound board" - a flat, not too thick slab of wood big enough for your turntable, supported by your choice of feet, from various cones to blocks of hardwood.    
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Post by colinf on Aug 1, 2020 20:50:32 GMT 12
 Years ago I had a Townshend Seismic Sink. One day it stopped supporting so I pulled it to bits to see why. Inside it contained the inner tube of a bicycle tyre wrapped around a metal former. The Townshend moved sideways and back to back, as well as some compliance vertically but it didn’t rotate easily. So now I just use a 24 inch bike inner tube inflated so that it forms suspension, but being circular in shape there is very little compliance rotationally. Sounds fine!
AMR-iFi R&D
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Post by Owen Y on Aug 3, 2020 17:04:43 GMT 12
Ah yes, the bicycle tyre idea has its merits too. There's also the sand-box concept (turntable sitting in a box of sand)- doesn't appeal to me (sand is 'fluid'), although I haven't tried it, so... I once saw a TT sitting on a box of pebbles - a Japanese idea of course
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Post by Citroen on Aug 3, 2020 17:45:35 GMT 12
I prefer a multi-disciplinary approach.  Aura sits on 1. "rubber" anti-vibration pads design for washing machines, then 2. inverted cones, followed by 3. Mag-lev feet. All of which sits on a granite slab, coupled to a rimu side table by sticky drawer liner material. 
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Post by Citroen on Aug 3, 2020 17:52:00 GMT 12
Ah yes, the bicycle tyre idea has its merits too. There's also the sand-box concept (turntable sitting in a box of sand)- doesn't appeal to me (sand is 'fluid'), although I haven't tried it, so... I once saw a TT sitting on a box of pebbles - a Japanese idea of course I bought a sandbox to mitigate footfall traffic under my Pink Triangle TT. Suspended wooden floors are a PITA! Sandbox help A LOT. It currently sits under my Pro-ject, which has nice cones for feet.  
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Post by jon on Aug 3, 2020 18:15:16 GMT 12
Wow, these tweaks are seriously scary... I look at all of these TTs and think: "Why are those decks so poorly constructed that the people who buy them have to go to elaborate extremes to ensure that the darn thing works properly?" For my Lenco (and the Garrard 401) I use Slate pucks sitting directly on my rack (36mm thick wood). Works well. And maybe I am being too simplistic and I should look at supporting my 80kg slate deck on a rubber inner tube or something like that! On a more serious note, make sure your rack is completely level, then ensure your TT is completely level, then make your tone arm completely level!!!! Learnt from setting up my Terminator, and gosh that was painful and embarrassing!  
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Post by Citroen on Aug 3, 2020 18:21:34 GMT 12
Currently not in use (which is not to say they aren't any good) Boston Audio Tuneblocks Black Diamond Racing pucks and cones Polycrystal Isolator cones I've tried rubber bike tire tubes and squash balls but although they sound good, I've not been happy with them maintaining equilibrium. They aren't that stable, as air loss compression etc. 
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Post by Citroen on Aug 3, 2020 18:26:19 GMT 12
Wow, these tweaks are seriously scary... I look at all of these TTs and think: "Why are those decks so poorly constructed that the people who buy them have to go to elaborate extremes to ensure that the darn thing works properly?" For my Lenco (and the Garrard 401) I use Slate pucks sitting directly on my rack (36mm thick wood). Works well. And maybe I am being too simplistic and I should look at supporting my 80kg slate deck on a rubber inner tube or something like that! On a more serious note, make sure your rack is completely level, then ensure your TT is completely level, then make your tone arm completely level!!!! Learnt from setting up my Terminator, and gosh that was painful and embarrassing! This is a "tweak" thread. Eeking out the nth degree jon  The Terminator terminated me! When the cartridge slid off the end and became terminal, I rapidly lost interest. Yes, VERY important to have everything level to begin with.
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Post by Owen Y on Aug 3, 2020 20:37:58 GMT 12
Wow, these tweaks are seriously scary... I look at all of these TTs and think: "Why are those decks so poorly constructed that the people who buy them have to go to elaborate extremes to ensure that the darn thing works properly?" Think of it this way.... a good TT should be placed upon something that suits way the TT operates. Some type of support that enables it to function as well as it can. Additionally, as Citroen mentions, you may have isolation and/or vibration/footfall problems.
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Post by jon on Aug 3, 2020 21:18:42 GMT 12
Fair point!
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Post by colinf on Aug 3, 2020 23:14:28 GMT 12
We’re getting into turntable suspension design here. The inner tube on the 301 works ok but as you say, it does need maintenance to keep it level and appropriate air pressure. I bought some Townshend Seismic Pods for the 401, they’re more stable long-term. For a turntable with an air bearing arm like the Terminator the level has to be absolute, and I suspect having suspension whose centre of gravity is at or above the arm (depending on suspension compliance) would work to stabilise the level with changes in the position of weight with arm position across the record. (Phew, that was a mouthful!) Citroen, what do you mean by washing machine anti-vibration pads?
AMR-iFi R&D
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Post by Citroen on Aug 4, 2020 0:55:43 GMT 12
Washing machine anti-vibration pads. They look to be made of any old common man made rubbery/plastic compound. I've put them where the sorbathane pads and springs would normally sit. 
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Post by colinf on Aug 4, 2020 19:30:05 GMT 12
Ok, was there much improvement over sorbothane and springs? Just looking at Owen’s internet pic of the SME 30. Suspension like that might be good for an air bearing arm.
AMR-iFi R&D
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Post by Citroen on Aug 4, 2020 19:34:09 GMT 12
I found the bass to be tighter, and less mid bloom. Overall an improvement and as such they have remained.
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Pundit
Post by belbo on Aug 5, 2020 7:25:06 GMT 12
I’m about to setup a new cartridge and replaced the turntable feet with Denon rubber feet. I thought about spikes but there is a lot of vibration in the room (and admittedly the turntable) so I’m hoping that the feet will manage that l. I’m placing it in a super heavy furniture top.
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Pundit
Post by peter0c on Aug 5, 2020 14:22:29 GMT 12
Turntable supported by an inflated wheelbarrow or Vespa inner tube (with mooring lines) placed in a bowel of water. What could possibly go wrong?
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Post by Owen Y on Aug 5, 2020 17:24:54 GMT 12
I note that you can now get 'airless' bicycle tyres - foam-filled.
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Post by michaelw on Aug 5, 2020 18:03:46 GMT 12
tell me more about the bowl of water...
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Post by colinf on Aug 5, 2020 18:24:39 GMT 12
Turntable supported by an inflated wheelbarrow or Vespa inner tube (with mooring lines) placed in a bowel of water. What could possibly go wrong? You forgot the No.8 wire to ensure it doesn’t float to the edge of the wheelbarrow. Did you work out which wheelbarrow material sounds best?
AMR-iFi R&D
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Pundit
Post by peter0c on Aug 5, 2020 20:49:03 GMT 12
Pirelli. The rubber band mooring lines (I'm a sailor) will prevent drift. South Islanders would be advised to add antifreeze.
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Post by michaelw on Aug 5, 2020 21:04:02 GMT 12
i prefer michelin when it comes to rubber
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Post by cartridgeguyonline on Aug 6, 2020 8:06:06 GMT 12
Pirelli. The rubber band mooring lines (I'm a sailor) will prevent drift. South Islanders would be advised to add antifreeze. Can Aucklanders afford to use water ?
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Post by colinf on Aug 6, 2020 17:56:49 GMT 12
I’d be careful talking about water there in Nelson...it was so dry the last two summers, one resulting in fires. Back to practical turntable suspensions, would you say rotational stability is a major factor to consider? A Linn-style suspension might suffer the most that way from having the motor mounted on the main plinth driving a suspended platter. The springs allow a bit of horizontal movement.
AMR-iFi R&D
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