Leading on from the thread about the future of high end HiFi stores...

If you had more money than sense AND the inclination to open a HiFi / Home Cinema store, what brands would you stock?

Speakers, amps, racks, cables, turntables, streamers, CD players etc.

And here's the crunch - from the brands / products you choose, do you believe you'd be able to turn a profit?

hmmm... this requires some thought

meanwhile, a little homily for you...

to make a million dollars selling hi-fi, start with two.

Yes Id agree with the above comment that is for sure..Man alive Im sure we have all taken a right royal bashing when trying to rehome audio kit after being hit with the stick that says upgrade!!

I think this especially applies to higher dollar value items.

Im very happy with my TADs,Absolare and rodded 401

I would imagine the above to be very true especially of high end kit bought new. However down in the old second hand region where I live resale is not so bad. And even my turntable I bought new in 1981 I would probably still get my money back on..

I would start by defining 'high end' as any single product that costs over $10,000 RRP.
How often would a retail store, for instance, sell a 2-channel AVR over that dollar amount?
Once a day, once a week, once a month?
I'd guess the latter?

So the key would be to have aspirational products, but at the same time fill a bulk of the stock with more cash and carry type kits.

Thoughts?

Pretty well everything Ive bought has been pre loved or dealer demo. The first owner always takes the biggest finacial hit. Lots of places also dealing direct now too. As Ive mentioned before even the bricks and mortar shops are not stocking items. Long gone are the days when you could have an item on appro over a weekend

Pretty much agree with all of the above which also asks the question: if geeks like us arent buying the new kit then who the heck is ?

IMO one of the only benefits of a bricks and mortar dealer is the ability to borrow kit on home demo so you could see if it worked in your system, otherwise you are just buying based on reviews or whatever and might as well buy from the cheapest source available. At least with a 2nd hand purchase there is the option that if you dont like it or it doesnt suit then you can flick it on on TM and not take too much of a loss hopefully.

A good dealer in any industry should provide good advice (as Guttenberg says) & provide warranty support.
On the latter point, I have benefitted from being recommended a brand of product, partly because the retailer knew that this brand provided unconditional warranty returns, repair or replacement.

(Not hi-fi however, but the same principle applies I think.)

This may influence what products a dealer might stock.
(On that basis I don’t think Guttenberg’s store would have continued to stock the Versa Dynamics TT after the warranty hassle that he described.)

DarkLantern blog - darklanternforowen.wordpress.com

In my experience you have to take the advice of HiFi dealers with a grain of salt as they tend to push their own philosophies. Naim and Soundline being the 2 disparate ideologies that spring to mind. Virtually impossible to get a subjective demo of any of their 2 systems side by side as they were sworn mortal enemies.

Wholesaler direct or wholesaler owned retail stores make some sense as it's a case of a 'double margin'.
However, the savvy consumer may figure out the 'scheme' and avoid them as they know that the advice will be dripping with bias.
Yet there would be many people on this site who buy direct from wholesalers retail 'fronts' and have no issue, after all, they like what they hear.


Yet no one has listed the products / brands that they would personally stock if they were to own and run a profitable retail store.

May 10, 2020 13:15:44 GMT 12 cartridgeguyonline said:

Pretty much agree with all of the above which also asks the question: if geeks like us arent buying the new kit then who the heck is ?

I will add, I believe this forum is not even remotely representative of the typical customer of HiFi / cinema retailers.

But again, I would be interested in the opinion of many re: putting their theoretical money where their mouth it.

What product mix would you have in a retail store?

Heck, there's another store opening soon in Auckland - are they on the right path?

Do they have rocks in their head?

Did they beat you to the punch?

What store is that cartridge? A2A?

Emotiva would be one brand I would investigate further as they seem keenly priced with a good array of models and features/benefits. Of course you would have to be aware of online pricing ex US.

I was speaking to "someone very senior" at one of the Soundline branches who told me withn some conviction that my Tads wouldnt sound anywhere near as good as they should with my Absolare integrated as they would with his Tad monos....how very interesting is that as I bet youd NOT heard them paired together yourself!

May 10, 2020 17:37:21 GMT 12 cartridgeguyonline said:

Emotiva would be one brand I would investigate further as they seem keenly priced with a good array of models and features/benefits. Of course you would have to be aware of online pricing ex US.

Finally - A brand!

The issue in making money would probably rare its ugly head though... if you had to be 'aware' of US pricing, then that alone would mean you'd make next to no money.

Unless of course you were the importer AND the retailer.

Then we're back to the topic discussed further up - ie a lack of trust in retailers being impartial due to their business tie-ups.

May 10, 2020 17:35:11 GMT 12 Citroen said:

What store is that cartridge ? A2A?

Yeah they said they are opening in Auckland in June.

It's another direct from distributor - retail store.

Cant help but feel you are putting the cart before the horse here Cartridge. Surely before you can decide which brands to carry you need to sort out who you are aiming to sell to. i.e Who is your target market ? Already we have determined its not the guys on here, so who are you marketing to ?

IMO a 'good' (from a consumer viewpoint) retailer, would aim to stock, or have access to, as many products/brands as possible in a particular market category or price range.

Thus would address the criticism of bias toward 'their own' brands.

DarkLantern blog - darklanternforowen.wordpress.com

I guess I am qualified to comment on this. A good retailer will sell stuff they like. Anything else is pretty insincere, at least in my view. If you don't actually like what you are selling, either from a sound or philosophy point of view, it's going to be a tough road.
Of course every retailer will have their preferences and philosophies, why wouldn't they? That doesn't make them bad or not worthy of being listened to. As a grown adult I am sure everyone has the ability to discern bias in selling, and some more disingenuous types are so one eyed its just funny. I am unashamedly one eyed in my approach to the brands and sound I like, but of course will always try and guide someone on their path, not mine. It's fairly obvious when researching anything from any seller what their biases are, but, you really don't actually know. Just get in touch with them and ask.

As for target market, I can confidently say that 95% plus of our 'high end' customers would never go online to a forum or even read hifi magazines. 'Geeky enthusiasts' are not the ones driving the high end market at all, it's people who enjoy music and people who like to own nice things.
As a retailer, we do have access to a lot of brands, but we don't push them necessarily, for multiple reasons.
We like to keep a consistent 'story' across the brands we sell, we tend to stock things that have a synergy with each other and that we know will work well together. Being a one stop shop is a fools game and just spreads you too thin in stock, and knowledge and experience.
There are plenty of shops and sellers out there, and if you don't like the philosophies of one, go to another.
Similarly, 'double' margins are not something to be afraid of, I can tell you that on the brands we import, there is most definitely not a double margin from landed wholesale price to retail, we use any 'additional' margin we get to mitigate the effects of shipping to NZ, and to try and match with global prices, which is always a huge challenge due to the tiny volume NZ can sustain. No one in hifi here is making huge money by any means, you make an ok living and get to play with some cool stuff, but no one is driving around in new Aston Martins, and if they are, it certainly isn't from proceeds from the hifi business ( I can think of one retailer in particular who that might apply to).

I am happy to answer questions from a retailers point of view, but won't tolerate retailer bashing, we are just trying to make a living, not rip people off.

Vice deputy sub assistant at Turned On Audio

audiosatori.wordpress.com

Re. after-sales support, one advantage for the customer, of a distributor-retailer is that good warranty support should be a given.

DarkLantern blog - darklanternforowen.wordpress.com

May 11, 2020 15:19:24 GMT 12 Neil said:

"...We like to keep a consistent 'story' across the brands we sell, we tend to stock things that have a synergy with each other and that we know will work well together."  

Well said Neil.

That's exactly what I seek from an experienced, 'proven' retailer. Thanks for your commitment to this modus operandi.  

Over 40years I have sought out, valued and benefited from this approach.

Ultimately, the onus is on punters to use the guidance and demos at retailers to determine a system that suits them.     

"I see music as a lifetime affair." [Rory Gallagher]

Neil, thank you for your balanced input! You raise a point I hadn’t thought of before, namely that most high end customers don’t frequent forums or even read Hifi mags!

That makes sense when you think about it. They are, generally speaking, well heeled and used to going to the resident expert, whether it be clothing, autos, housing, and such like. They expect to pay good money for top advice, and generally speaking being busy people just don’t have the time to devote to being a geek like us! Hadn’t thought of it like that before. Probably why you don’t see too many Magico speaker owners on forums like this.

Nicely stated Neil,

I enjoy music and like nice things too.

May 11, 2020 12:47:07 GMT 12 Owen Y said:

IMO a 'good' (from a consumer viewpoint) retailer, would aim to stock, or have access to, as many products/brands as possible in a particular market category or price range.

Thus would address the criticism of bias toward 'their own' brands.

That makes sense - but then, the 'specialist' becomes a generalist who 'sorta knows a bit about this brand, and a bit about this model'.

The temptation to be everything to everyone is very real in the days of the internet, but is it the best approach?

Well, if you have a retailer who stocks some products but lists pretty much ANYTHING they can get their hands on... why would a supplier want to deal with them? Would their product be a 'hero' product in their store, or would it get washed away in the tidal wave of information?

Sure that will depend on the brand / retailer / training / pricing etc - but a retailer who stands up and says "I'm proud to specialise in THIS and THIS... and only THIS and THIS' would logically know their stuff and get the best pricing and support.

Neil - would you say your biggest competitor is other luxury goods and services?

New cars, artwork, high end call girls?

quality over quantity.
as neil said, stocking products that work well together makes sense.

i do miss the old days though,
back in the late 80s/early 90s when manawatu tv and sound was a really good shop, one could sample all to your heart's delight.

want the best arm for a linn ?
try an ittok, grace 707, rega rb300, helius aurum.

time for a new turntable ?
linn, ariston, oracle, sota or this new brand called well tempered

Stocking numerous high end tone arms would be a quick way for a store to run out of cash flow though...

the shop had a rega in stock on another turntable, the grace was mine so all they got in was the helius and drilled up two linn armboards.

i spent a lot of hours in that shop and got to play with a wide variety of gear.

OTOH an experienced retailer should be cognisant that every customer is different &, as Guttenberg says, you need to find what suits the customer.

If the answer differs from the retailer's own personal tastes, then there's nothing criminal about that.

IMVHO.

DarkLantern blog - darklanternforowen.wordpress.com

I developed my knowledge and interest in Hifi in the early 90s because of two competing retailers in my small then home town. Well they were two generalist electrical goods stores, but each had a knowledgeable specialist in Hifi/Stereo and the developing HT market. I was on first name terms with both of them, and they would welcome my visits for a chat and and a look over the latest gear in stock. One store got in a supply of the Audioenz hardcopy mags each month, which was always a good reason to drop in.
I started with an all Rotel set up, from one store, then found my first real loudspeakers (Kef) at the other. The ball started rolling a bit more quickly when Terry rang me, and said he had a Plinius SA50 amp I might like to take home and try, so I did, and bought it. A few months later he told me he would trade the SA50 for what I paid for it on a Plinius SA100Mkii! The same Terry on one of my later visits asked me if I had heard the Plinius Jarrah, “No, well you better take it home and have a listen”.

I think those sort of easy going days have gone. There was no internet.

Mine started back in the mid 70s, just started work and a workmate demonstrated his system to me Roberts amp, Koss Headphones dont remember the TT, and kinda geeky that I can remember the system details and the album (dire Straits communique), but not his name ! Anyway I was hooked after that. Christchurch at that stage was abuzz with hifi shops. Bob Brown had about 3 stores at one stage with 2 stores on the same block in town, one large one selling all varieties of rack systems and another on the corner stocking only Yamaha. His other store was in New Brighton.

Back to Neils earlier missive, isnt it strange how there is such a disconnect between the enthusiast market and the High end HiFi market ?