Pundit
Post by belbo on Jan 30, 2020 2:54:09 GMT 12
Dear all,
Brief reminder about my system: a very modest system with a Denon DD turntable, Lehmann Black cube phono and Leben 300XS amplifier. One of the things on my list is to upgrade the phono to a good tube phono - but that is planned for a later stage. I just bought a DV Karat (an older 19A MKii LE) kind of an impulse buy and having read (I think in this forum as well) the synergies with the DV P75 phono I'm considering getting one used (I found one at a very nice price). Having said that I'm wondering:
1) Am I going to see an improvement vs the Lehmann? (price wise they're close).
2) is the PE mode worth it?
3) The cartridge has a 0.2mV output so really wondering whether the 60/63db output of the DV is sufficient (I would doubt it).
I would appreciate your thoughts on the above!
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Post by Owen Y on Jan 30, 2020 12:21:07 GMT 12
Firstly, you look at the power amp - the Leben 300XS needs 600mVrms input 'sensitivity' - in order to deliver full power (15Wpc). The P75 has 63dB (1400x) gain from a 0.2mV cartridge source = only 280mV output. So, the 300XS will not be able to output full power, when fed by the DV cartridge + P75 phono. Unless your speakers are very sensitive and/or your listening level loudness is not high, this may be insufficient gain/power.
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Pundit
Dynavector P75 Jan 30, 2020 19:22:45 GMT 12
via mobile - Edited Jan 30, 2020 19:30:51 GMT 12 by belbo
Post by belbo on Jan 30, 2020 19:22:45 GMT 12
Thanks, that’s a good point Owen. The Lehmann is not much better with 66db (I made the calculation and it brings me to 399mV) but it’s still better. I do have sensitive speakers as they’re single drivers but it would probably be stretching it. Admittedly the P75 is around the same class as the Lehmann (I can buy Lehman’s upgrade power supply for not that much that transforms it into the SE which is one of the best phonos in its category). The appeal is more the PE mode and the potential synergy with the cartridge.
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Pundit
Post by belbo on Jan 30, 2020 23:35:50 GMT 12
Does the "PE Mode" have the same gain restrictions though? Is it still only 63db gain in PE mode as well?
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Post by Owen Y on Jan 31, 2020 9:05:59 GMT 12
I have never used a P75 - but michaelw may be able to advise.
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Post by jon on Jan 31, 2020 9:13:14 GMT 12
Does the "PE Mode" have the same gain restrictions though? Is it still only 63db gain in PE mode as well? From what I can see it does not change the gain settings.
What it does do is change the stage from a voltage amplifier to a current amplifier. At that point it is very system dependent, as the resistance of the system will affect what you get.
The upshot is that if at all possible I would get hold of a review model and see what it sounds like in your system.
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Pundit
Post by belbo on Jan 31, 2020 15:37:13 GMT 12
Does the "PE Mode" have the same gain restrictions though? Is it still only 63db gain in PE mode as well? From what I can see it does not change the gain settings.
What it does do is change the stage from a voltage amplifier to a current amplifier. At that point it is very system dependent, as the resistance of the system will affect what you get.
The upshot is that if at all possible I would get hold of a review model and see what it sounds like in your system.
I had a look at the manual and it lists the gains only in voltage mode, in current mode it doesn’t list any gains!
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Post by Citroen on Jan 31, 2020 17:46:21 GMT 12
My understanding is that the gain is dependent on the cartridge in PE mode. That is, it is not a constant but depends on some parameter of the cart you use, which is why none is listed for PE mode.
But not sure which parameter...
So I could be totally wrong!
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Pundit
Post by belbo on Feb 1, 2020 3:40:35 GMT 12
My understanding is that the gain is dependent on the cartridge in PE mode. That is, it is not a constant but depends on some parameter of the cart you use, which is why none is listed for PE mode. But not sure which parameter... So I could be totally wrong! I've decided against it but out of curioucity: 1) Did you see a difference in-terms of gain between voltage and current mode. 2) Is current mode worth it?
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Post by michaelw on Feb 1, 2020 11:39:31 GMT 12
PE mode on the three variants of the p75 i reviewed (mks 1,2,3) didn't have any audible effect on gain.
the benefits of PE mode depend heavily on the cartridge you use.
best suited to cartridges with low output impedance.
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Member
Post by tabarddn on Mar 31, 2021 10:39:46 GMT 12
Hi, I would think again about the P75, (caveat, as long as it is the mkIII or 4) Your Dyna cart would be an idea made & used in PE mode (transimpedance mode) it makes a significant upgrade from the standard. The other thing you need to do with this phono amp is get a descent Power supply something around 24 VDC @ 2.5 amp or even more. That makes a big difference to the attack from vinyl. In PE mode the cart is equal or better that any commercial amp at around NZ$3000. Unfortunately when not used in PE mode it is just an ave phono amp.
Cheers
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Post by cartridgeguyonline on Mar 31, 2021 12:37:14 GMT 12
Why not contact colinf and ask his opinion. He has a Dynavector cart and he makes excellent phono stages. He is based in the UK at present.
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Post by cooksferry on Mar 31, 2021 16:35:13 GMT 12
Talking to one of the staff at Sound line some time ago he confirmed that the later models like the Mk3 really needed a better power supply that the wall wart provided.
I always thought my Mk3 lacked some of the dynamics of my original mk1.
I was always in pe mode using a Dv20XL.
I seem to recall they were recommending a Well Tempered power supply.
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Pundit
Post by Neil on Apr 1, 2021 12:16:58 GMT 12
If you're hanging out for a tube phono, Leben have a new one coming soonish... MC/MM with on board SUTs and adjustable loading etc.
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