Pundit
Post by belbo on Jan 24, 2020 7:13:10 GMT 12
Hi, A pretty basic question so apologies if it's too basic: 1) I'm looking to replace the phono cable on my vintage turntable (a Denon DP-1700). I'm attaching a photo of the back: do I assume correctly that wiring is split into 2: there is a tonearm wire and then there is the phono wire? Should this be a DIN connection? 2) My current phono wire has RCA and a ground wire (that I connect to my phono's ground wire. Looking however on off the shelf phono wires none of them include a ground wire: isn't this a problem? thanks in advance!
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Post by cartridgeguyonline on Jan 24, 2020 11:44:43 GMT 12
Hi Belbo,
I assume what your photo is showing is the 2 tonearm cables left and right with an earth wire in between going into what I assume is a mini din plug ? Are you saying that at the pother end of the cable where the RCS plugs are there is no earth wire ?
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Post by sub on Jan 24, 2020 12:06:49 GMT 12
I think he is saying that the cables connected to his TT do have an earth wire connected to his amp, but that some replacement phono leads on the market seem to be sold without earth wire.
In that case the ground wire is to be sourced separately. Certainly one is needed.
Belbo, correct, the tone arm cables and the phono cables are separate and joined as you suggest.
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Post by Citroen on Jan 24, 2020 12:58:56 GMT 12
Phono cable should have R+/R-, L+/L- and separate tonearm ground.
The 5 pin DIN does this nicely, and there are phono specific cables out there that have a DIN to RCA connection, with ground attached. Just be aware that there are various different sizes of these DIN plugs for specific tonearms.
You could use that "off the shelf" RCA to RCA cable but it may not be optimise for the small phono signals (have low resistance/impedance/capacitance - the physics experts will know what the right term is). And of course you will have to change the DIN cable at the TT end to accept the RCA cable. The ground wire can be almost any piece of wire.
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Post by michaelw on Jan 24, 2020 15:15:44 GMT 12
also some tone arms don't have a separate earth wire,
eg rega uses the left channel screen as earth.
op - is the original arm cable faulty ?
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Post by Owen Y on Jan 25, 2020 12:26:32 GMT 12
Actually I think those 5-pin tonearm plugs are not really DIN or Mini DIN. They’re sometimes called JIS (Japanese Industrial Standards) phono plugs, but even that is not exactly correct IIRC. Will try & recall the details.
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Post by cartridgeguyonline on Jan 25, 2020 14:15:47 GMT 12
Hi Owen,
You are correct I think. They are commonly called a mini din plug, but are actually a JIS plug. Back when I was having phono cable issues I looked everywhere trying to find a source for these to no avail, ended up getting Brendon to very kindly fix my existing one and bought a Jelco as a spare. I see audioquest now have a range of Phono leads too which I havent investigated yet.
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Post by Citroen on Jan 25, 2020 16:07:59 GMT 12
So a German cable is a DIN (Deutsches Institut für Normung) and a Japanese one is a JIS? Different standards but I think that common parlance has all of these as DIN nowadays. "DIN" has taken over as the standard name for any of these cables. A google search will show many companies selling "DIN" phono cables but some of these may actually be "JIS" phono cables. Pro-ject has an affordable JIS to RCA cable www.musicdirect.com/cables/pro-ject-connect-it-phono-tonearm-cable-5p-cc-123m-din-demo I see that even if its titled a JIS to RCA cable, they also refer to it as a DIN cable:)
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Post by cartridgeguyonline on Jan 25, 2020 16:13:06 GMT 12
Confusing isnt it ? Did you find anywhere that just sells the plugs ?
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Post by Owen Y on Jan 26, 2020 13:07:10 GMT 12
Confusing isnt it ? Did you find anywhere that just sells the plugs ? IIRC, Cardas make a range of these so-called DIN phono plugs.
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Post by colinf on Jan 26, 2020 14:15:35 GMT 12
Gothic Audio have some for £14. gothicaudio.com
AMR-iFi R&D
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Post by Owen Y on Jan 26, 2020 16:22:37 GMT 12
I found where I got my info from - Jonathan Carr (Lyra designer) on Audiogon forum (2006): “ The tonearm connector isn't a DIN, nor is it even a JIS. It is something which appears to have been designed as a tonearm-specific electrical connector. I believe that the company that designed it was called Denon Parts (no relation to the other more famous Denon). “
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Pundit
Phono cable Jan 26, 2020 20:45:06 GMT 12
via mobile - Edited Jan 26, 2020 20:46:14 GMT 12 by belbo
Citroen likes this
Post by belbo on Jan 26, 2020 20:45:06 GMT 12
Thanks a lot for the ideas and answers. Connection looks like the attached. There are some cables in the market (the most well-known one which has some good reviews is the one made by Jelco with Mogami wire). Nothing wrong really with the existing one but I’m moving to a really low output cartridge (0.2mV) so thought that a better cable will be beneficial. I am probably going to buy the connector and ask a friend to construct the cable so I keep it low cost!
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Post by Owen Y on Jan 28, 2020 10:23:21 GMT 12
Oh... that's different. This is what the tonearm phono plug usually looks like (from a Fidelity Research tonearm)...
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Post by michaelw on Jan 28, 2020 13:14:49 GMT 12
both should fit ?
my arm base has round pins but the cables have slotted openings like belbo's pic.
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Post by Owen Y on Jan 28, 2020 13:24:51 GMT 12
Yes, they are both 60deg-spaced 5 pins.
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