Dec 26, 2019 16:38:30 GMT 12 garym said:

The D50s isn't the last word in DACs by any means, but it is very good value for money.

Yup, a more useful comparison they could've done, might have been with something for similar money, like say a Schiit Modi Multibit.

DarkLantern blog - darklanternforowen.wordpress.com

Dec 29, 2019 14:42:01 GMT 12 Owen Y said:

Dec 26, 2019 16:38:30 GMT 12 garym said:

The D50s isn't the last word in DACs by any means, but it is very good value for money.

Yup, a more useful comparison they could've done, might have been with something for similar money, like say a Schiit Modi Multibit.

Schiit don't seem to have the technical skills they'd like us to think they do. The DACs like this that they've used industrial multibit chips in are poorly implemented going by standard measurements. While I don't think measurements tell you what a product will sound like, they do indicate whether the product is competently designed. The multibit achieves around 12 bits of linearity.

www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-battle-of-schiit-audio-dacs.5487/

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And look at this shocker...

audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/measurement-and-review-of-schiit-bifrost-multibit-dac.2319/

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Dec 26, 2019 19:03:56 GMT 12 harvey said:

Now looking at the Denafrips Ares you posted about Owen, R2R DAC may be the answer for me. I note Reference Audio are listed as a local supplier. Tried calling Peter a couple of times and no answer, sent an email and havent heard back, it was Xmas Eve though. Email to Vinshine Audio got a quick response but he is out of stock for a couple of weeks.

I've heard back from Peter who is on holiday until February. Placed an order with him for an Ares ll but they are now on back order for 6-8 weeks due to demand. I'm not the most patient person at the best of times...

I'll post my thoughts on the appropriate thread in due course.

There's a Mk1 on Trade Me
www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=2457422572

That Denafrips looks like a worthy contender.

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Thanks, I hadnt seen that. Call me sceptical but that packaging looks like it has been around the block. It either had a rough trip over or is older than the seller claims IMO. I'm expecting the MKll to come in around for around $1500 so will wait not so patiently.

Yes, should be about $1500. Much better to wait for a new Mk2 version.

He/she has that listed for a while. They need to remove the month part to the ad!

Are these cheap Chinese DACS ethically sourced ? I.E Guaranteed to be not manufactured by Chinese slave labour, or is that an unrealistic expectation ? Does anybody else worry about this ?

Fair question above. I do think realistically China is WELL known for labour abuses with pretty much every field of commerce they are involved in...period!! Checking on whether items are ethically manufactured would be like asking the Don if hes going to upset someone this week... clearly he is!!

So an unrealistic expectation then.

The question then is: would this disturb your enjoyment of music knowing the pain, anguish and suffering that had been involved in the manufacture of it ?

Personally for me I would be troubled by this ?

China now has a huge 'middle class', average per-capita income is now not low & cost of living has risen too.
Income 'inequality' is actually now similar to USA (which is nothing to boast about), there is similar huge disparity between the (few) very rich & the poor.

In this country, workers on Minimum Wages are paid below a Living Wage (the income necessary to provide the basic necessities of life). Again, USA is much worse.
Is this 'ethical', does this bother us?

Should we feel any better boycotting China (or other countries) when we purchase such 'luxury' goods?

DarkLantern blog - darklanternforowen.wordpress.com

Anyone on the forum using a smart phone or computer ar all...?

Jan 8, 2020 16:30:54 GMT 12 andrewp said:

Anyone on the forum using a smart phone or computer ar all...?

Smart phone from South Korea, Computer from Malaysia.

Jan 8, 2020 16:30:54 GMT 12 andrewp said:

Anyone on the forum using a smart phone or computer ar all...?

Apple phone and PC.
Both "designed by Apple in California Assembled in China"     So assume I'm filling apples coffers on the back of 'favourable' chinese labour costs (and materials?) 
And presume its PRC [Peoples Republic of China - mainland China] and not ROC (Republic of China -Taiwan) 

"I see music as a lifetime affair." [Rory Gallagher]

My son who works in the phone retail business for a big box retailer tells me they regularly get shipments of apple products with "rescue me" letters inside.

That's SO sad...

Sounds like Fox News to me

DarkLantern blog - darklanternforowen.wordpress.com

I wonder if now that Boris is in power and Brexit is going to happen, that manufacturing is going to slide back into the country?

AMR-iFi R&D

Remembering some of the English cars I used to have, I sure hope not...

Hmm well the Mini hasn’t been a paragon of reliability...

Quads have though. Linn...tweaky but reliable, Garrard, Spendor, Wharfedale, B&W, Tannoy, Rega...reliable. EAR, later stuff quite reliable.
Brits can do it, as can and do Kiwis.

AMR-iFi R&D

This has got me thinking, I bought the Topping and Denafrips without a second thought for the labour conditions in China but I have a moral dilemma every time I buy eggs at the supermarket.

The choice is not so simple with the DAC. I auditioned the Chord (UK) and Luxman (Japan) but neither had me wanting to dig deep in my wallet. The Schitt (USA) was also an option, but mixed reviews put me off. In the end the Denafrips is a gamble but one I'm willing to take. I figure if I don't like it I could move it on without losing to much coin. However if I had let my conscience drive my decision, and bought a DAC made elsewhere and asuming everyone else did the same the chinese worker would be out of a job, is a shit job better than no job?

Jan 9, 2020 8:02:54 GMT 12 colinf said:

Hmm well the Mini hasn’t been a paragon of reliability...

Quads have though. Linn...tweaky but reliable, Garrard, Spendor, Wharfedale, B&W, Tannoy, Rega...reliable. EAR, later stuff quite reliable.
Brits can do it, as can and do Kiwis.

Aren't some of those now manufactured in China eg Quads, Wharfedales and a range of Tannoys?

Jan 9, 2020 8:14:55 GMT 12 harvey said:

This has got me thinking, I bought the Topping and Denafrips without a second thought for the labour conditions in China but I have a moral dilemma every time I buy eggs at the supermarket.

The choice is not so simple with the DAC. I auditioned the Chord (UK) and Luxman (Japan) but neither had me wanting to dig deep in my wallet. The Schitt (USA) was also an option, but mixed reviews put me off. In the end the Denafrips is a gamble but one I'm willing to take. I figure if I don't like it I could move it on without losing to much coin. However if I had let my conscience drive my decision, and bought a DAC made elsewhere and asuming everyone else did the same the chinese worker would be out of a job, is a shit job better than no job?

I'm on your page Harvey.
The world's (western) 'consumer' society would grind to a halt if we followed ethical principles and rightly or wrongly I agree with your question: "is a shit job better than no job?"

Me? I'm too old to fight that one, I go for quality/bargain every time and will probably end up in hell...
As Citroen says - loads of high end audio production coming out of china these days, world class quality too (c.f. Schitt, i.e. patchy reviews, for example)

On the other hand - we can happily stick with world class Aotearoa gear: Wand TT/Arm, Pure Audio electronics, Antipodes, Tex Tone speakers etc, ... and minimise the 'extras' from overseas: cartridges, headphones etc    

"I see music as a lifetime affair." [Rory Gallagher]

Citroen, mm yes. Be good if it came back to UK though.

AMR-iFi R&D

With all due respect chaps, I am talking about slave labour here, not a shit job with shit pay and working conditions. Have had a few of the latter myself over the years but they never caused me to pop letters in packages to customers. At the end of the day I could simply leave and find another job: this isnt an option available to slaves.

But perhaps its an issue that each of us should consider prior to making a purchase and perhaps ask the question of the supplier.