Hi.

Something that has been bothering me and would appreciate some input. My system is very simple with a Leben tube amplifier and Almarro full range floor stander speakers, you can see it here:
darklantern.proboards.com/thread/1565/hi-europe

I'm generally very happy with it, especially when playing Classical & Jazz but when I'm playing Rock I do feel that there is something missing on the low-end. 

One of the considerations I had is whether it would make sense to add a sub-woofer to compensate for that, using it ad-hoc whenever I feel there is a need. I have heard contradicting opinions about the fidelity of subwoofers, so any thoughts/guidance would be very much appreciated (needless to say I have already looked and exhausted Speaker positioning + my amplifier does support Bass boost which helps). Generally I'm in favour of clean-simple solutions and adding a subwoofer complicates things (including adding a crossover on the way), so I'm generally skeptical about it. 

Thanks to everyone in advance!

Belbo

In answer to your question: yes but I dont think a sub will give you what you are looking for imo.

I use a pair of REL subs with my ESL57s and while it adds a certain ease and a sense of gravitas to the system it doesnt turn it into an earth shattering rock monster.

Yes.
How's that for a quick reply!
Wouldn't be without my REL Strata 3.There are later models out now of course.And running it off the amplifier outlets as recommended there is no extra crossover to interfere with your main speakers.
Not needed for low listening but once wound up it does make a difference to the whole soundstage as well as shaking the floor with cathedral organs!

Subs can be a good addition, but make sure it’s set up just so! It’s good to get the phasing just right between the main speakers and the subs. Two seem best for stereo as you can still locate where the subwoofer is despite bass frequencies being less directional than mids and high end. Also don’t be tempted to turn up the subwoofer volume as it will tend to dominate and sound disjointed. Ideally set it up with a microphone and speaker analysis software.

AMR-iFi R&D

May 6, 2019 9:42:20 GMT 12 colinf said:

Subs can be a good addition, but make sure it’s set up just so! It’s good to get the phasing just right between the main speakers and the subs. Two seem best for stereo as you can still locate where the subwoofer is despite bass frequencies being less directional than mids and high end. Also don’t be tempted to turn up the subwoofer volume as it will tend to dominate and sound disjointed. Ideally set it up with a microphone and speaker analysis software.

I agree, two are better than one.

However if you are in need of bass then build a pair of Jensen Imperials and rattle the neighbour's windows.

Thanks to all to everyone! I'm looking for little compensation, I'm not a bass head in any way.

neilsan could you explain how does it connect on the amplifier outlets? Isn't it between amplifier & main speakers? thank again!

Belbo

Most powered subwoofers have an input that works off the speaker output of your amplifier. That way you can get the tone of the amp through the subwoofer and it’ll sound more cohesive with the main speakers.
The main speakers can be run either directly from the amp, which makes them run full range; or from the speaker output of the subwoofer, which will roll the bass off from them. By rolling off the bass to the main speaker the distortion can be a bit lower in the midrange as its woofer is no longer making large bass excursions. The voice coil of the main speaker will be kept in the most linear part of the magnetic circuit.
But in having the main speakers connected to the main speaker output of the subwoofer, the signal usually goes through electrolytic capacitors, which may be cost effective for the subwoofer manufacturer, but can smear the sound from the main speakers compared to using a separate higher quality film capacitor.

AMR-iFi R&D

As colinf says.
Some cheaper subs only have an input from a preamp,so the main speakers then feed off the sub.Not a nice sound.

May 6, 2019 18:23:55 GMT 12 colinf said:

Most powered subwoofers have an input that works off the speaker output of your amplifier. That way you can get the tone of the amp through the subwoofer and it’ll sound more cohesive with the main speakers.
The main speakers can be run either directly from the amp, which makes them run full range; or from the speaker output of the subwoofer, which will roll the bass off from them. By rolling off the bass to the main speaker the distortion can be a bit lower in the midrange as its woofer is no longer making large bass excursions. The voice coil of the main speaker will be kept in the most linear part of the magnetic circuit.
But in having the main speakers connected to the main speaker output of the subwoofer, the signal usually goes through electrolytic capacitors, which may be cost effective for the subwoofer manufacturer, but can smear the sound from the main speakers compared to using a separate higher quality film capacitor.

So you connect both the speakers and the sub on the same amplifier posts (so 2 cables running from the amplifier post: 1 going to the speakers and 1 to the subwoofer)? do I understand it correctly Colin?

This tutorial from REL should help


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I made the mistake of expecting a sub to help with bass impact or to make it more dynamic when what actually happened was it just went lower. Sold the sub and don't have any desire to have another.

Hi Belbo, yes, if you want to have the main speakers run full range, and the sub to augment the deep bass where the main speakers start rolling off.
IME dynamics come from the main speaker, and the sub adds lower notes and helps with soundstage depth.

AMR-iFi R&D

Thanks colinf and Gryffles I think I need to try it out and see what happens!

Agree whole heartedly with Neil. Makes a world of difference to a speaker that maybe is lacking the bass dynamics from smaller cabinetry or drivers.

IMHO bass sounds rely on the upper frequencies for their leading edges, eg percussive ‘attack’.

‘Dynamics’ comes from many things -unrestrained dynamic headroom, low noise floor, overall system sensitivity + power headroom, etc

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