Post by Owen Y on Feb 8, 2019 11:30:04 GMT 12
It's only appropriate that we should have a Linn Sondek thread here - arguably the most popular 'hi-fi' TT in history, at least the longest in continuous production, 45 years since 1972. (See also sub's Linn LP12 thread.) This LP12 was brought to my attention recently, for sale at The HIFI Store in Mairangi Bay, Auckland (retail store of importer & distributor, Linn NZ). - Serial No. 41043 (c.1982-83) - Linn Basik LV-X tonearm - Grado cartridge (Prestige Silver 2?) 
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Post by michaelw on Feb 8, 2019 13:56:48 GMT 12
the sl-1200 fanclub may disagree with "the most popular 'hi-fi' TT in history" 
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Post by cartridgeguyonline on Feb 8, 2019 16:10:08 GMT 12
Not if they had listened to the two of them side by side !!
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Post by Owen Y on Feb 8, 2019 16:43:38 GMT 12
A fair price, do you think? 35 years old but looks minty.   
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Post by sub on Feb 8, 2019 17:23:22 GMT 12
With the Basic arm the price seems about right, but would prefer the Ittok arm over the basic
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Post by michaelw on Feb 8, 2019 17:41:02 GMT 12
Not if they had listened to the two of them side by side !!
done that !
lp12 has it sonically but loses the popularity contest.
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Post by cartridgeguyonline on Feb 8, 2019 18:10:20 GMT 12
Me too, for once we agree.
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Post by Owen Y on Feb 8, 2019 18:35:07 GMT 12
The Basik LV-X is a good tonearm. The Basik Plus is better. And of course the Ittok (LVII in my case) is much better, for MC cartridges esp. - not without some character, but better. I had an LP12 - 2 of them over a decade. My nephew swooped in on the above Sondek. I think he likes it more than his Rega Planar 3-RB202-Sumiko Pearl.... " Much quieter. Tighter bass, less boomy. Treble not as screechy.
Soundstage recedes back more, but seems to be deeper.
Definitely a step up from the Rega. " " Voluminous & controlled.
I think the Rega was almost 2D in imaging.
The LP12 just sounds more 3D. "
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Post by Owen Y on Feb 8, 2019 19:09:18 GMT 12
Perhaps I should have said, "the most popular high-end turntable in history"? 
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Post by michaelw on Feb 8, 2019 21:12:47 GMT 12
linn or rega ?
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Post by Owen Y on Feb 9, 2019 8:40:03 GMT 12
A good Q.... If anyone can dig up any figures, that would be interesting. Rega 2/3 iterations say.
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Post by michaelw on Feb 9, 2019 9:06:28 GMT 12
sidebar... ime most manufacturers are cagey about production figures/sales
why ?
some are even paranoid about publishing local pricing.
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Post by sub on Feb 9, 2019 13:39:58 GMT 12
The serial number on my LP12 is 041081, so 38 units younger than this one. But, this one is Glasgow made (ash plinth) and mine is NZ assembled (Tawa plinth).
I suspect that the serial numbers of the NZ assembled units got out of sequence with UK made, as while the serial number indicates circa 1982/83, mine has the bearing requiring the Linn “Black” oil, which came out in 1984.
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Post by sub on Feb 9, 2019 14:24:54 GMT 12
A valuable resource for LP12 owners is now off line - the Linn Forum, which had a section devoted to the LP12.
The forum was tightly moderated by Linn (I got into a bother when I first joined as I named other products assembled by Avalon when the LP12 was being assembled by them in NZ, and was promptly ejected - accused of spamming! I was readmitted on appeal.)
It seems Linn wanted to divest themselves of the burden of moderating the forum, and have closed it down. Unfortunately, even though a google search for info re an LP12 issue, will bring up a link to a topic on the Linn forum, the link no longer works.
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Post by michaelw on Feb 9, 2019 14:56:23 GMT 12
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Post by Owen Y on Feb 9, 2019 16:59:59 GMT 12
I suspect that the serial numbers of the NZ assembled units got out of sequence with UK made, as while the serial number indicates circa 1982/83, mine has the bearing requiring the Linn “Black” oil, which came out in 1984. Hi sub - not wishing create confusion, but I am not aware of LP12 bearings that cannot take the Black graphite-loaded oil - aside from very early bearings (c. up to ser. no. $30k) which were specified with a lowish viscosity spindle oil. I believe that the later white & black sleeved bearings all work OK with black oil. I used black oil on my first NZ Tawa LP12 & again on a later Black Ash LP12 (around '89). (I also tried other oils ) Am happy to be corrected if there is definitive info out there. As said, I don't want to disseminate misinformation
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Post by michaelw on Feb 9, 2019 17:13:31 GMT 12
my '82 vintage nz linn of tawa was also updated with black oil sidebar - the lp12 sub-chassis is not really suspended by springs, rather it sits on top of springs. true suspension was achieved by the likes of sota, who hung their sub-chassis from springs
golden oldie (pre-digital) time
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Post by sub on Feb 9, 2019 19:02:29 GMT 12
I suspect that the serial numbers of the NZ assembled units got out of sequence with UK made, as while the serial number indicates circa 1982/83, mine has the bearing requiring the Linn “Black” oil, which came out in 1984. Hi sub - not wishing create confusion, but I am not aware of LP12 bearings that cannot take the Black graphite-loaded oil - aside from very early bearings (c. up to ser. no. $30k) which were specified with a lowish viscosity spindle oil. I believe that the later white & black sleeved bearings all work OK with black oil. I used black oil on my first NZ Tawa LP12 & again on a later Black Ash LP12 (around '89). (I also tried other oils ) Am happy to be corrected if there is definitive info out there. As said, I don't want to disseminate misinformation When I ordered bearing oil from the Linn dealer, they were particular about my serial number as they said early models required a different oil. I sent my s/n and got a reply to the effect that my TT sat on the cusp of a bearing type change, and wanted a photograph. They also sent me a photocopy of a Linn guide listing the types of bearings and their oil requirements. I seem to have deleted their emails, but found a post on vinyl engine forum which contains the identical information. See image attached. My TT has the bearing with black housing and white liner, which is said to have been produced in 1984. 
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Post by Owen Y on Feb 9, 2019 20:14:42 GMT 12
Yes, I believe that the early 'gold' bearing was specified with the low viscosity spindle oil. All others should be OK with the black oil.
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Pundit
Post by Dom on Feb 10, 2019 10:57:46 GMT 12
He did well. Lots of mongrels went for much higher in the last 2 years. D
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Post by sub on Feb 10, 2019 12:08:55 GMT 12
Re the bearing oil issue, did some further research, and it appears the the Linn “Black” oil was first introduced following a bearing change in 1987. It follows that bearings earlier than that could use a mineral oil recommended by Linn, but that some (clearly not the one with the gold body) could safely use the new black oil. Image 1, from Wikipedia.  
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Post by Owen Y on Feb 10, 2019 13:46:42 GMT 12
(Trying not to take this further onto a lubrication tangent ) Oil - that Velocite No.6 was a Mobil low viscosity (equivalent to say 0W-5W grade) spindle oil. Interesting that around the same time (1970-80), Technics were specifying a SAE 30 grade (much thicker / higher viscosity) synthetic oil for their DD motor bearings. Eventually, it seems, Linn did similar - for sonic reasons too I think, as the Black Oil sounded better, weightier, 'bassier'.
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Post by Owen Y on Feb 10, 2019 14:42:27 GMT 12
Since we (nephew & myself) were impressed with Rega's RB202 tonearm (see REGA turntable thread), we have been wondering how that would perform on the LP12. (Although this was Rega's current entry-level tonearm until the RB220 was introduced (in 2016?), my impression was that it is a top-grade tonearm.) However, a few things to consider first: - nephew needs to become thoroughly familiar with his new LP12 before considering changes. - the Rega arm has different Effective Length to the LV-X Basik - and thus differing mounting distance. - the Rega arm has no height adjustment (although nephew's one is fitted with Rega's Height Adjustment Spacer). - the Rega arm-base fixings may conflict with the Linn fixing holes (both use 3 screws/bolts) - so a new armboard may be required.
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Post by michaelw on Feb 10, 2019 16:29:22 GMT 12
with newer linns you will may have to modify the corner bracing too. what you need is a nice alphason hr100, that arm drops straight in ...
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Pundit
Post by Dom on Feb 11, 2019 8:34:35 GMT 12
One of the reasons I think this was such a great buy is that it has a Linn arm. So many in the past two years have not. Even a Basik *performing well* will sound sweet on these. But of course, there are many Rega/Linn advocates for a number of reasons and the pluses and minuses would be easy to research. D
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Post by Owen Y on Feb 11, 2019 19:01:11 GMT 12
Yes, certainly Linn built an industry partly out getting synergy out of more than just the sum of individual parts.
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Post by sub on May 8, 2019 16:15:24 GMT 12
Just took delivery of a new felt platter mat ex Auckland Linn agents. For my LP12. $65 ouch.
It is much thinner than the old mat. Is this a cost cutting exercise or do the new thin mats perform better?
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Post by cartridgeguyonline on May 8, 2019 17:28:56 GMT 12
Reminds me of the old LP12 discussion where Ivor claimed that the mats sounded better one way up over the other. I seem to recall a Magazine at the time tested this and found it to be true. That was the old felt mats, what are the new ones ?
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Post by Citroen on May 8, 2019 17:35:55 GMT 12
I can't say that I've ever heard a good felt mat.
But I'm limited to Regas, Projects and Linn Axis, not the lp12.
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Post by michaelw on May 8, 2019 18:02:31 GMT 12
i still have my old linn felt mat.
it got replaced by an oracle mat, then rim acrylic mat.
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