Post by deano1974 on May 30, 2017 20:59:40 GMT 12
Guys sorry to jump in but is anyone actually selling a complete working unit? Plenty of complete units for sale, some made from ground up at great cost. A lot using readily available cleaners and adding peripherals like Owen has done. Sourcing your own US unit and adding is way cheaper. And Owen's unit is far cheaper than the others that I have seen. If Owen was to source a cleaner and motor and then add his fabricated parts for you to sell as a complete unit, then rightly the cost would double. So how good are they and did it take you long to work out the correct mixture for the solution
Manager & Product specialist at Rapallo AV & HI-FI
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Post by Owen Y on May 30, 2017 21:07:21 GMT 12
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Post by deano1974 on May 30, 2017 21:07:52 GMT 12
Thanks Owen
Manager & Product specialist at Rapallo AV & HI-FI
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Post by Citroen on May 31, 2017 18:41:45 GMT 12
Yes that is correct - the rotisserie motor alternates direction, each time you switch on/off. Just let it rotate a bit each time, for the 'gears' to reverse direction. Choose the clockwise direction, when seen from the bearing end, looking at the motor drive hole. This way the threaded rod will not tend to 'crawl' outward, from the motor if there is any friction at the bearing. Interestingly, I thought the same. motor alternates direction each time you switch on/off. BUT mine does that sometimes, other times it doesn't change direction. Had up to 6 on/off cycles all in the same direction! Bizarre...
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Post by sub on May 31, 2017 20:49:57 GMT 12
Kogan now have the rotisserie motor back in stock - $25 - have just ordered mine.
seems they are based in Aus as have been billed $32!
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Post by sub on Jun 8, 2017 14:50:03 GMT 12
Unpacked the rotisserie motor, it has a slightly different backing plate to the one in Owen's photos, but otherwise looks the same.  
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Post by Owen Y on Jun 23, 2017 10:26:11 GMT 12
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Post by sub on Jul 10, 2017 10:28:48 GMT 12
Hi Owen, I'm ready to go now. New (220V) machine arrived, model PS30, and have had the rotisserie motor for several weeks. How is progress on the 2nd batch of the kit set?
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Post by Owen Y on Jul 10, 2017 16:27:20 GMT 12
Hi sub - excellent! We will be ready to ship 2nd batch in a day or two - will put your name on one! Where are you located? Have you got some Triton X-100?
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Post by Owen Y on Jul 10, 2017 16:33:55 GMT 12
The more I use the Ultrasonic cleaner, the more I'm impressed with the process. It's like the fine modulations in the groove cut are cleaned out & a layer of musical detail appears. I've been following the US clean (25 min) now with a vacuum dry on a conventional record cleaner.
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Post by sub on Jul 10, 2017 17:18:47 GMT 12
Hi sub - excellent! We will be ready to ship 2nd batch in a day or two - will put your name on one! Where are you located? Have you got some Triton X-100? Triton ordered and on way. Am in Far North . Will PM you with address. PM me with price, shipping costs, and will pay by bank transfer, if that is ok? Got a stack of records to clean ready and waiting!
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Post by Citroen on Jul 10, 2017 19:24:42 GMT 12
The more I use the Ultrasonic cleaner, the more I'm impressed with the process. It's like the fine modulations in the groove cut are cleaned out & a layer of musical detail appears. I've been following the US clean (25 min) now with a vacuum dry on a conventional record cleaner. Ditto. But I've settled on 20 mins for 4 lps. My recipe is distilled water, heated to 40 degrees, 5 to 10 mls Kodak PhotoFlo and I'm amazed at the amount of crud left in the tank! LPs are vacuumed dry in a conventional RCM. The only downside is that sometimes I think they sound a bit "digital" but that may just be a level of clarity I haven't heard from the LP before.
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Pundit
Post by rocl on Jul 10, 2017 22:22:19 GMT 12
Citroen how do you have it organised to fit 4 discs? i tried to fit 4 with the orange spacers but it's just a bit too wide. i thought of making some slightly thinner ones but haven't got around to it yet.
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Post by Owen Y on Jul 10, 2017 23:11:19 GMT 12
My recipe is distilled water, heated to 40 degrees, 5 to 10 mls Kodak PhotoFlo and I'm amazed at the amount of crud left in the tank! LPs are vacuumed dry in a conventional RCM. The only downside is that sometimes I think they sound a bit "digital" but that may just be a level of clarity I haven't heard from the LP before. I can understand how you might feel a bit like that, I felt that way even with regular RCMs. I have tended to tweak VTA down a touch from time to time. I have never used heating. Esp 40deg, i'd be concerned about cooking the vinyl 
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Post by Citroen on Jul 11, 2017 10:26:41 GMT 12
Citroen how do you have it organised to fit 4 discs? i tried to fit 4 with the orange spacers but it's just a bit too wide. i thought of making some slightly thinner ones but haven't got around to it yet. I had the same problem initially as well But I've removed the spacer for the mounting of the motor, raised the motor and other side up as far as it will go. This then allows me to do 4 with the current spacers. Occasionally I've had the records creep outwards away from the motor and then foul up on the side of the tank, so it can't rotate. This is with the correct direction of rotation so it doesn't wind off. 
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Post by Citroen on Jul 11, 2017 10:45:35 GMT 12
My recipe is distilled water, heated to 40 degrees, 5 to 10 mls Kodak PhotoFlo and I'm amazed at the amount of crud left in the tank! LPs are vacuumed dry in a conventional RCM. The only downside is that sometimes I think they sound a bit "digital" but that may just be a level of clarity I haven't heard from the LP before. I can understand how you might feel a bit like that, I felt that way even with regular RCMs. I have tended to tweak VTA down a touch from time to time. I have never used heating. Esp 40deg, i'd be concerned about cooking the vinyl I should clarify that I set it to 40 degrees MAX. The US action naturally heats the water even if you don't turn the temp on, but it still takes a while for the temp to rise even when heated if you start with room temp distilled water. By the end of a cleaning session the temp can approach 40. I've read somewhere on the internet (so it must be true) that the cleaning action can be twice as efficient for every 10 degrees. And it does anecdotally seem to be that way too. Vinyl begins to bend at about 45 degrees, so I reckon I have a 5 degree safety margin! 
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Post by michaelw on Jul 11, 2017 10:59:26 GMT 12
hope the temp settings on the machine are accurate ! 
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Post by Citroen on Jul 11, 2017 11:24:51 GMT 12
Now you guys have made me paranoid, so I'm now going to set it to 35 degrees max.
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Pundit
Post by rocl on Jul 11, 2017 11:59:22 GMT 12
Citroen - thanks. just have 4 discs on and rotating now. i have also upped the time and temp too.
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Post by sub on Jul 18, 2017 17:40:09 GMT 12
Kitset arrived today, assembled, and cleaned first 11 discs.
Playing the first one just now - Beethoven's Pastorale symphony, Berlin SO, Karajan. I posted about this boxed set under the heading "Op Shop finds" a few weeks ago. Records look mint, but after my usual clean for new LPs, when I tried playing the Pastorale then, it was too noisy to play more than a few bars.
Now, absolute silence on the run in groove, and all the quiet - pianoisssimo - bits at start of the first movement clearly heard without static or extraneous noise.
I'm a convert and a believer!
Only issue is that now and again there were sort of groaning noises - not prolonged - from the area of where the axle fits into the rotisserie motor, and twice I had to manually turn the axle to get it to continue rotating. Yes, it was turning the right direction. Probably a running in thing.
I did not heat the water, and used the vacuum on my manual Nitty Gritty after about 15 minutes air drying in a rack.
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Post by Citroen on Jul 18, 2017 17:48:37 GMT 12
Great news.
Check none of the records are contacting the sides of the bath, as it might be snagging on it causing it to stop turning.
That's what mine did when I tried overloading it with more than 3 lps. If using only three lps, check that they are in the middle of the machine and that the jig is centered so that there's no lp contact with the bath.
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Post by Owen Y on Jul 18, 2017 18:42:13 GMT 12
sub - Excellent news. Citroen is on the money I believe - the motor will stall & groan if the records touch the tank ends - hopefully your baseplate should slide snug under the tank flange, it should be a tight fit even, ideally to discourage any 'creep' during use - also wise to ensure that the tank is level. I now clean for 25mins & vacuum clean immediately - ie before any fluid/residue has time to dry in the record grooves. How much concentration of detergent, if any?
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Post by Citroen on Jul 18, 2017 18:50:30 GMT 12
25 mins for three?
I use 5 mins per record, but heated so that ups the detergent factor in theory (more heat, more detergent activity, hence less equivalent time to achieve the same result).
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Post by sub on Jul 18, 2017 19:10:55 GMT 12
Was keen to get started so just added a drop of Triton without measuring it.
Did check several times to see if records binding on tank, but they seemed to be turning freely.
First clean was with three LPs, and the next two cleans with four. Next time will clean three and make sure they are centred.
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Post by Owen Y on Jul 18, 2017 21:21:09 GMT 12
25 mins per cycle (1, 2 or 3 records at a time.) Remember that.... When you consider that the record is only partially immersed in the tank fluid, the total cleaning time for any point on the record surface is only a fraction of the total cleaning time period. Inner grooves in particular, receive the shortest cleaning - by my calcs, only around 1/7th of the no. of mins/rev x the total mins cleaning time period. eg. for a 2rpm motor & say a 15min tot. cleaning time, the inner grooves are immersed only for a total of around 1 minute! The outer grooves are immersed for longer - for the same 2rpm mtr & 15 min cleaning, only for a total of a bit under 3 minutes.  So, increasing the cleaning cycle from 15 min to say 25-30min, will at least give the inner grooves a decent couple of mins of actual cleaning immersion.
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Post by Owen Y on Jul 18, 2017 21:50:44 GMT 12
Was keen to get started so just added a drop of Triton without measuring it. Straight Triton concentrate? Normally that would not dissolve at that concentration, it would sit on the bottom as a globule - but the cavitation might dissolve it, I dunno.... You want a final mix of 0.1 to 0.2% - that's 1:1000 to 1:500. The tank holds around 4.5 Litres (4500mL), so you want around 2 to 4mL of the concentrate in there. That's around 1/4 to 1/2 teaspoon (of concentrate). But......it won't dissolve easily in water - I mix a teaspoon (around 5mL) at a time, stirring, in a 500mL bottle to get a 10% mix (ie. 10 teaspoons) of stock concentrate. I leave it in the refrig overnight to dissolve slowly. Then I use that 10% stock concentrate & dilute down at 1:100x into the tank to end up with 0.1% final fluid mix.
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Post by sub on Jul 18, 2017 22:11:46 GMT 12
Was keen to get started so just added a drop of Triton without measuring it. Straight Triton concentrate? Normally that would not dissolve at that concentration, it would sit on the bottom as a globule - but the cavitation might dissolve it, I dunno.... It was a very small "drop", less than a 1/4 of a teaspoon, and it dissolved readily even before cavitation started. I poured water in a bit at a time, and with the first amount - less than a litre, it sudsed up, a bit like a weak solution of dishwashing liquid. The suds dissipated as I kept pouring more water in, but did not entirely vanish. Maybe it is my water supply - no chemicals in it, pure spring water from our own water supply. It goes through two filters before reaching the house. And I set the timer for 25 minutes.
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Post by Citroen on Jul 18, 2017 23:12:09 GMT 12
25 mins per cycle (1, 2 or 3 records at a time.) Remember that.... When you consider that the record is only partially immersed in the tank fluid, the total cleaning time for any point on the record surface is only a fraction of the total cleaning time period. Inner grooves in particular, receive the shortest cleaning - by my calcs, only around 1/7th of the no. of mins/rev x the total mins cleaning time period. eg. for a 2rpm motor & say a 15min tot. cleaning time, the inner grooves are immersed only for a total of around 1 minute! The outer grooves are immersed for longer - for the same 2rpm mtr & 15 min cleaning, only for a total of a bit under 3 minutes. So, increasing the cleaning cycle from 15 min to say 25-30min, will at least give the inner grooves a decent couple of mins of actual cleaning immersion. By my calculations the outer grooves are immersed for about .3 of the diammeter of the circumference of the lp. So for 15 min that equates to 15x.3 = 4.5 minutes The inner grooves at about 1/7 or .14, so are immersed .14x15= 2.1 minutes for any given innermost groove point. The number of revolutions per minute is irrelevant as the immersion time is still only a percentage of the diammeter that is immersed. If a third of the lp is immersed at the outer edge then if it spins twice as fast, it still is only immersed a third of the time. I think...
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Post by Owen Y on Jul 19, 2017 10:00:52 GMT 12
Citroen, you are correct I think, motor speed does not matter. Inner groove immersion is around 13.5%, so is immersed only 2mins of a 15min cycle. And Outer groove only around 38% = ~5.5min of a 15 min cycle. (I think we both have too much time to spare...not! )
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Post by Citroen on Jul 19, 2017 20:50:09 GMT 12
And of course, depending on your cleaning solution, the rest of the lp is still covered in solution, so some passive cleaning action will be taking place throughout the whole cycle time.
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