Be interested in any feedback from any forum members with experience of using a sub in their 2 channel set up.
I have mentioned several times my dissatisfaction with some aspects of the Tannoy XT6F speakers that have been with me for a bit over a year. I have played with placement (limited in that respect) cables, valves etc but using either my TT or digital playback the speakers lack a good depth and weight in the bass response compared to my previous Monitor Audios.
These were supposed to be end game speakers and I would like to get things sorted this year before I retire. 
I had seriously considered selling ,but once again I would have  problems getting a home demo of anything ,so buying based on reviews again .Thoughts over  the last couple of weeks have turned to adding a small sub to the system. 
My Melody amp does have a pair of RCA outs that are apparently there for a sub so connection at least shouldn't be too hard.
As I don't have a lot of spare room left for placement size does come into the equation and since I just want to flesh out the bottom end, not start an earthquake, I think a small sub would work fine.
I do have a small unit in the lounge as part of a Polk soundbar on the TV and playing with levels on that show just how much even a small amount can add to playback enjoyment.

Some of my interest in a sub has been tweaked by watching several You Tube videos by Paul McGowan from PS Audio, a big fan of sub woofers who makes some convincing arguments.


At this stage I have a couple of options on the table

1/  Yamaha NS-SW200 which is nice and compact
2/ EVS SB-1000

At this stage I'm leaning more towards the EVS unit which is a bit bigger than the Yamaha but they appear to be a well reguarded brand .

Any thoughts most welcome.

ps Of course I could still get a sub, ditch the Tannoys and add a couple of stand mounts. My mind is pretty fluid on this right.
 now.

I bought a REL Strata 3 in 2000 to go with my Celestion SL6S's. Now used with my Image 412/2's.

The reason I bought the REL is that it can run off the output terminals of an amp as well as the output of a preamp.
They are meant to sound/integrate better getting the same signal as the speakers.
I'd never connect the main speakers to the output of the sub,which cuts off the lower bass to the main speakers.
That sounds terrible!

All that aside,I don't think I could live without the sub,even though most music through the Images sounds great,and there are times when I've switched off the sub and not noticed on casual listening.

It certainly affects the sound,having that low extension.Even with no low bass recorded I hear more ambience from a recording,especially if it's something like trains underground in London,or someones foot tapping time on a floor!!
Only problem I find is,many cd's are very bass heavy, and there's the odd thump on the odd LP as it hits the same spot with a defect!

Over the years I've kept turning the volume down on the sub and believe I have a happy balance now.
It's stuck in a corner behind my main speakers,which I pull out from the wall about 600mm for serious listening.

I have friends with the old Quad electros and they have their small subs in different places,one halfway along a wall nearer the listener.Very noticeable when the sub's not on,but that's because they're Quads!!!!!
Sorry have no experience with any other make.Good luck!

Hi Cooksferry, my own experience with subs has been that it takes quite a bit of matching and tweaking to get them to sound just right. I’ve always preferred stereo subwoofers instead of just one as although deep bass is omnidirectional, you can still locate the subwoofer by ear if the frequency response is set to extend into the upper bass, up to 60Hz or so. Below say 30Hz one sub would be fine.
But as you are experiencing the Tannoys being a bit light in the low end I’d possibly use two subs, one for each channel. The rolloff of upper bass in subs is usually very sudden (ie. of a high order) so it may or may not match with the way the Tannoys roll off in the bass. It would be good to borrow a sub you have an eye on to see if it’s going to work for you. The variables are frequency rolloff matching with the Tannoys, positioning to avoid one note bass (a bass resonance), phase continuity between the sub and main speaker and subwoofer volume level setting. That’s all assuming the bass on the Tannoys is in fact good down to a certain frequency where they start rolling off.
So although subwoofers can be very good if set up properly, it might take a lot of tweaking and the right woofer(s) to get to that point. If it were me I suspect I would look at a full range speaker that does 'do it' instead.

AMR-iFi R&D

Jan 4, 2019 7:50:48 GMT 12 colinf said:

Hi Cooksferry, my own experience with subs has been that it takes quite a bit of matching and tweaking to get them to sound just right. I’ve always preferred stereo subwoofers instead of just one as although deep bass is omnidirectional, you can still locate the subwoofer by ear if the frequency response is set to extend into the upper bass, up to 60Hz or so. Below say 30Hz one sub would be fine.
But as you are experiencing the Tannoys being a bit light in the low end I’d possibly use two subs, one for each channel. The rolloff of upper bass in subs is usually very sudden (ie. of a high order) so it may or may not match with the way the Tannoys roll off in the bass. It would be good to borrow a sub you have an eye on to see if it’s going to work for you. The variables are frequency rolloff matching with the Tannoys, positioning to avoid one note bass (a bass resonance), phase continuity between the sub and main speaker and subwoofer volume level setting. That’s all assuming the bass on the Tannoys is in fact good down to a certain frequency where they start rolling off.
So although subwoofers can be very good if set up properly, it might take a lot of tweaking and the right woofer(s) to get to that point. If it were me I suspect I would look at a full range speaker that does 'do it' instead.

My biggest problem is getting my hands on any sort of speaker for a decent home audition. I did have thoughts of trudging up to Chch with my amp, cables etc for a couple of days but it still doesn't replicate my room conditions.
Headphones are so much easier.

Yes, headphones are definitely easier!
But good 2 channel speakers satisfy in a way headphones can’t quite. Soundstage for one. I've had Focal speakers here for a few years now. When I first heard them in Melbourne next to Martin Logans and B&Ws I was a bit taken aback at how much of the information and dynamics they reproduced that the MLs did, and the B&Ws didn’t, for a fraction of the cost of the MLs. I didn’t feel the neeed for a subwoofer as the bass on the bookshelf Focals had adequate heft and depth.
I wonder if you do go to Chch for an audition of different speakers, you could take your Tannoys there too and put them in a position in the listening room that makes them sound like they do at home.

AMR-iFi R&D

Don't settle for one. Two is better.

I confess I have never used a sub, so take the comment with a pinch of salt.

Jan 4, 2019 12:36:41 GMT 12 jon said:

Don't settle for one. Two is better.

I confess I have never used a sub, so take the comment with a pinch of salt.

If I only had the room. Squeezing one into an appropriate space could be a challenge.  Of course I could always sell off some of the music and clear some room...

Count me a fan too, though ive never heard either of the brands you mentioned. I've a pair of REL's that Ive used successfully here with a variety of speakers over the years. (Paul McGowan has a youtube video where he discusses REL subs in glowing terms). One of the few genuine upgrades I have made over the years. Dont know who has the agency for them now but I picked up mine in Singapore ( I figure if you cant get a home demo you might as well buy them from the cheapest source you can, and you can combine it with a holiday for the wife.) I am currently using them with a pair of Quad esl57 (which contrary to popular belief you can get good bass out of but need to be positioned optimally). If you are in the area you are welcome to pop in for a listen. (Nelson is lovely at this time of year though is currently invaded by hordes of beer swilling teenagers for bay dreams.)

i'm not a fan of subs, i find they subtract more than add to a good system.
coherence suffers and after a while it all becomes one-noted.

i'd stick to full range speakers.

but if you must engage in subwoofery, definitely two over one.

I understand that space is restricted, but have you tried locating spkrs closer to the room corers?

The listening seat is back almost against the rear record shelves (IIRC) -try adjusting forward (or backward) a bit.

The easiest way to enhance LFs - your room width/height/length resonance fundamental modes will be 47-70Hz (2.5-3.6m), which will be boosted if you hit the 1/4, 1/6 (speaker) & near-wall (spkr or listening) locations.

DarkLantern blog - darklanternforowen.wordpress.com

Jan 4, 2019 6:35:01 GMT 12 cooksferry said:

At this stage I have a couple of options on the table

1/  Yamaha NS-SW200 which is nice and compact
2/ EVS SB-1000

At this stage I'm leaning more towards the EVS unit which is a bit bigger than the Yamaha but they appear to be a well reguarded brand .

Any thoughts most welcome.

Just a small correction, it's SVS, not EVS.

Wandering through Harvey Norman today and saw a small Klipsch sub that may well do the job well enough and for $377 might be worth a punt.

Had a further play with the Tannoys this afternoon using Steven Wilson/Home Invasion blu ray as a source. If I stand behind a speaker there's definitely more bass and moving the speakers close to the wall certainly improved response especially in the kick drum. The way I have the speakers set at the moment is pretty much as recommended by Tannoy and I would have thought that their down firing bass port would have made placement less critical. One of the reasons I purchased them.
Will try a very temporary placement tomorrow with them backed almost hard against the wall although it will narrow the distance between the two .

If that makes a noticeable improvement then I may have to suck it and try and move everything through 90 degrees, not something to be done on a whim as it means unpacking the stereo rack, part dismantling the TT and lumping boxes of vinyl , vac cleaner, cd rack etc around. I figure about two hours work with a tail wind. If I do that then the speakers can be placed against or very close to a side wall and fire across the room. Also means I end up closer to the speakers.

Suddenly just paying out for a sub woofer seems much more attractive.

Jan 4, 2019 20:28:21 GMT 12 Owen Y said:

I understand that space is restricted, but have you tried locating spkrs closer to the room corers?

The listening seat is back almost against the rear record shelves (IIRC) -try adjusting forward (or backward) a bit.

The easiest way to enhance LFs - your room width/height/length resonance fundamental modes will be 47-70Hz (2.5-3.6m), which will be boosted if you hit the 1/4, 1/6 (speaker) & near-wall (spkr or listening) locations.

Only one corner that I can use Owen and the rack currently sits there. Two of the others are occupied by lp racks that can't go anywhere else and the third is the door way.
Tried moving the seat around, speakers around.

Jan 5, 2019 18:01:11 GMT 12 cooksferry said:

Wandering through Harvey Norman today and saw a small Klipsch sub that may well do the job well enough and for $377 might be worth a punt.

Had a further play with the Tannoys this afternoon using Steven Wilson/Home Invasion blu ray as a source. If I stand behind a speaker there's definitely more bass and moving the speakers close to the wall certainly improved response especially in the kick drum. The way I have the speakers set at the moment is pretty much as recommended by Tannoy and I would have thought that their down firing bass port would have made placement less critical. One of the reasons I purchased them.
Will try a very temporary placement tomorrow with them backed almost hard against the wall although it will narrow the distance between the two .

If that makes a noticeable improvement then I may have to suck it and try and move everything through 90 degrees, not something to be done on a whim as it means unpacking the stereo rack, part dismantling the TT and lumping boxes of vinyl , vac cleaner, cd rack etc around. I figure about two hours work with a tail wind. If I do that then the speakers can be placed against or very close to a side wall and fire across the room. Also means I end up closer to the speakers.

Suddenly just paying out for a sub woofer seems much more attractive.

I’ve fiddled with moving the stereo through 90 degrees and generally prefer it when I sit closer to the speakers, which fire across the room instead of down it. Ie. The their backs are near the long side of the room and there is a lot of space to the left of the left speaker and ditto for the right. I like the soundstage width better that way, and because you’re sitting closer to the speakers there is more direct sound than room reflections. The only caveat with putting speakers near the wall is soundstage depth tends to diminish to a slight degree, but is still listenable.

AMR-iFi R&D

Rush of blood and purchased the little Klipsch bub from Hardly normal. A bit constrained with placement for the moment as the longest RCA cables I have are 1.5metre and could do with something longer to play with . Right now the sub is hard against the rear wall behind the speakers. It's a downward firing speaker and I'll get either a large ceramic tile or a piece of MDF to sit it on rather than straight onto the carpet. I found putting the soundbar sub onto a tile made a noticeable improvement.
Just ran a couple of tracks through it at the moment but with the gain set about one quarter there's a nice added weight to the lower mids and more depth to the bass of course. It was nice to be able to finally hear Danny Thompson's double bass again pluming the depths on Richard Thompson's Semi Detached Mock Tudor.
Still playing with the cross over setting and have to admit that there I'm really in the dark as I have no idea where a theoretical starting point would be with the Tannoys. Just playing it by ear.

If this pans out I will probably upgrade to something like a SVS sub later in the year or failing that head to Chch at Easter time for some serious demos of new speakers.