Post by sub on Jun 6, 2018 10:55:36 GMT 12
It seems I am cartridgeguyonline’s first customer.
Ian sent me some carts to audition. At the end of the day the 2M Black was the outright winner.
Most things you read about this cartridge are true. It extracts detail in spades! Soundstaging and placement of individual instruments are amazing. Able to listen into the mix and hear the individual instruments. Dynamics great. Not sterile, accurate and presents exactly what is in the groove. Warmth and PRAT present when true to the music.
I had read that the audiophile qualities of the Black could lead to listener fatigue. That has not been my experience. Second day of auditioning just played side after side - couldn’t stop listening.
One thing this cart has proven, is that the ultrasonic record cleaning machine works perfectly. I played mostly 2nd hand Records, all excep one had been cleaned in the Ultrasonic RCM. all played with perfectly silent surfaces, despite the Shibata stylus being able to dig deep into the groove. The one Uncleaned albums, despite playing silenty with my other carts, had a lot of surface noise when played.
cant praise Ian’s service high enough.
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Post by sub on Jun 6, 2018 15:39:12 GMT 12
A blind test of nine cartridges set up and reported on by Michael Fremer - www.analogplanet.com/content/nine-cartridges-compared-reviewed-and-voting-resultsled Michael to say (paraphrasing him here) that the results followed the money, that is that the more expensive the cartridge, the better it sounded. The 2M Black came in second while the cart that beat it was almost $200 US dearer (a made for USA market only Audio Technica). Certainly, my auditioning proved that point. The Black was substantially dearer than other carts I tried. Pity AT carts are over priced in NZ - the top AT MM is slightly cheaper than the Black in US dollars, but is near $600 more in NZdollars!
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Post by cartridgeguyonline on Jun 6, 2018 17:24:47 GMT 12
Thanks for your comments John, I really enjoyed talking with you about music and HiFi, Good Luck hunting down those Nelson Riddle albums.
Cheers, Ian
MW: not sure if we were reading the same tests but didn't the more expensive MC carts in that survey not fair so well ?
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Post by michaelw on Jun 6, 2018 18:26:31 GMT 12
the report above was mainly on high output cartridges.
the sole low output - ortofon anna, on mf's mega buck system, got about half the votes of the at 150anv on a much cheaper system.
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Post by sub on Jun 6, 2018 21:36:54 GMT 12
Re-read MF report, it seems the Anna was at a bit of a disadvantage in the test, and MF says he will revise things for his next similar experiment.
The only other MC in the mix, a high output Blue Point Special, was about $300 US cheaper than the Black, and not as good.
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Post by sub on Jun 6, 2018 21:55:18 GMT 12
Pity AT carts are over priced in NZ - the top AT MM is slightly cheaper than the Black in US dollars, but is near $600 more in NZdollars! For example, The Needle Doctor, in US dollars, sells the Black for $755 and the Audio Technica equivalent, the AT VM760SLC for $649. In NZ, the Black retails for $1149 and the AT is $1799! I guess the price difference for the AT is in the distribution chain? Reminds me of the Mission loudspeaker prices in nz back in mid 1990s. The importer/distributor was based in Australia, and nz resellers were faced with adding on cost of shipping from UK to Aus, and from Aus to NZ, before adding on their margin.
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Member
Post by paul300b on Jun 12, 2018 14:19:28 GMT 12
AT is $1799
Wow! That's about $3 per record in stylus life! Prices have been going up on cartridges. The at150mlx is a superior cartridge spec wise to all the new AT's and they were around us$300 5 years ago. Nagaoka MP series has doubled as well in that time.
Sub, what other cartridges did you compare the Black to?
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Post by Citroen on Jun 12, 2018 18:09:59 GMT 12
$1799 divided by $3 = 600 records. At about 40 mins average per record means a stylus life of only 400 hours paul300b? Conservatively, I'd say 1000 hours, and anything up to about 2000 if records clean, you take care of stylus etc. So I reckon its only about a dollar an album. Actually less, as you can always retip, or replace cartridge for less than the initial price.
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Post by sub on Jun 12, 2018 19:06:09 GMT 12
Sub, what other cartridges did you compare the Black to? Denon DL-103r, Linn K18, ( my own), Hana EH and Ortofon Bronze from cartridgeguy. the 103 is warm, dynamic & detailed - but no where near the Black - a very pleasant listen. the K18, accurate, dynamic - a little more so than the 103, lacks the inner clarity of the Black, again a pleasant listen. the Hana, beautiful tone, warm but not syrupy, perfect for late night intimate jazz, yes dynamic, but not as much as the 103, and does not come near the Black in detail and soundstaging. the Bronze, still having a listen while waiting for my new Black to arrive. Very similar in many aspects to the Black, but just does not provide the same ability to listen into the mix, and lacks the ability to track individual instruments, or voices, with the same clarity and accuracy of the Black. If I didn’t have the experience of hearing the Black would probably say it was a very good listen.
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Post by paul300b on Jun 12, 2018 19:37:55 GMT 12
$1799 divided by $3 = 600 records. At about 40 mins average per record means a stylus life of only 400 hours paul300b ? Conservatively, I'd say 1000 hours, and anything up to about 2000 if records clean, you take care of stylus etc. So I reckon its only about a dollar an album. Actually less, as you can always retip, or replace cartridge for less than the initial price. 400 to 500 sounds about right. More won't damage records, but performance sure is down. Try replacing a stylus at the 500 mark and wow, it sounds so much better. and this is with an at14sa, grain ori. rectangular nude shibata stylus, so not a cheap one. Plus accidental damage of tip, damper damage. Jico reckon 500 hours for their SAS, an excellent stylus. And that would be 50c a record, if you had a used cartridge body.
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Member
Post by paul300b on Jun 12, 2018 19:39:36 GMT 12
Cd is free tho', (almost, depends on your power company I guess)....
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Post by Citroen on Jun 12, 2018 19:52:31 GMT 12
$1799 divided by $3 = 600 records. At about 40 mins average per record means a stylus life of only 400 hours paul300b ? Conservatively, I'd say 1000 hours, and anything up to about 2000 if records clean, you take care of stylus etc. So I reckon its only about a dollar an album. Actually less, as you can always retip, or replace cartridge for less than the initial price. 400 to 500 sounds about right. More won't damage records, but performance sure is down. Try replacing a stylus at the 500 mark and wow, it sounds so much better. and this is with an at14sa, grain ori. rectangular nude shibata stylus, so not a cheap one. Plus accidental damage of tip, damper damage. Jico reckon 500 hours for their SAS, an excellent stylus. And that would be 50c a record, if you had a used cartridge body. If you're only getting 400 to 500 hours per cart/stylus I'd suggest you are doing something wrong IMHO
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Member
Post by paul300b on Jun 13, 2018 13:30:10 GMT 12
Probably am doing something wrong...usual am. Haha From what I have read I hope to get 800 hours on my retipped Paratrace Supex 900. But mc's need more force, so that will lower lifetime again. ($1 per hour) My AT at14s (the equal of the 2m black) tracks about 0.5 gram lower. I have a good few NOS tips for that I got cheap.If i hear any high freq distortion in the high bands on an test lp that wasn't there when I set it up i will remove it as you can't see the beginning of wear (if you can, it will have already removed high freq info on your records some sources say). 0.2 x 0.7 elliptical are considered to have good high freq performance,but lowest lifetime (less time than conical!) So I check them more often. sorry, this is going of topic a bit
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Post by cartridgeguyonline on Jun 13, 2018 17:49:48 GMT 12
I'm probably with paul300b on this one. Was told by the Garrott guys in Oz that 600 hours is about your lot. More wont damage your records but performance drops off. To be honest its probably a moot point for Mr Citroen and myself as we both seem to chop and change around our collection of cartridghes pretty often so it will even out the wear over the range. I'm not actually sure that I ever have worn a cartridge out, broken a few yes, broken or bent cantilevers yes, but worn out i'm not so sure.
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Post by Owen Y on Jun 13, 2018 20:54:24 GMT 12
I recall Fremer recommending stylus inspection after ~1,000 hrs - that is IF you keep your records scrupulously clean & clean the stylus between record sides.
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Post by Citroen on Jun 15, 2018 17:37:17 GMT 12
I'd be a bit miffed if I only got 400 hours out of a cart. I can understand performance dropping off slightly after this amount of play but nothing significant as to require replacement. Unless, you're a 45 or 78 rpm afficiando, and therefore of course your stylus will wear out a lot faster!
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Member
Post by paul300b on Feb 20, 2020 21:32:12 GMT 12
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