Post by sub on Jun 12, 2017 16:07:31 GMT 12
In the amplifier section, deano asked me how I was getting on with the Plinius 2100i amp, and replied I was not happy, not so much with the amp which was everything I hoped, but CD playback was much better than vinyl!
Have been home since Saturday after a couple of weeks away. Today I had time to make some changes with the jumpers in the P75/3.
Before making the changes, I played some familiar LPs, and my recollection was right, the midrange was missing that magicke I crave. I had done some reading while away, and in a couple of articles about the 103R, one recommended setting the cartridge loading at 500ohms, and another at 200ohms, rather than the standard 100ohms that the cart specs would suggest was the right setting.
The P75/3 does not have a 500 ohm setting,nor 200 - has 470 and 220, so up first I changed settings to 220. I also changed one jumper on the DrT settings, inserting one at position 11-12 as well as positions 1-2 and 9-10.
Finally, I am happy again. Mostly the changes are subtle, but the midrange has that bloom back in it that makes music enjoyable. A couple of changes are not so subtle.
An example. Famous Blue Raincoat, Jennifer Warnes. While I was away I found a very clean 2nd hand NZ pressing, so am able to compare it with my new Impex reissue on180gms.
Initially, the NZ pressing sounded just great, just as I remember. After making the jumper changes, it opened up some more, Jennifer's voice sweetened up and the drum rim shots keeping time on the opening track - First we take Manhattan - were sharp and precise. Hmm, I thought, wasted a lot of money buying the Impex issue, this sounds awesome.
Put on the Impex issue, well, almost night and day, the rim shots were much more realistic sounding, and Jennifer's voice deepened, still sweet, but now you could tell her voice was not just coming from her mouth and throat, but also from her chest. When I first played this with the old settings, I was reasonable pleased with the sound, but there seemed to be some coarseness in her voice when she started singing loudly. Now, no coarseness.
Then Bruce Springsteen, a new album to me, "Chapter & Verse". Had played some of it yesterday with the original P75/3 settings, and not overly impressed. Played Side C just now - containing some familiar tracks - totally different, midrange lifted, his voice smoothed out, played the whole side. Yesterday changed record after only a couple of tracks.
This might be the start of a long and happy relationship!
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Post by Owen Y on Jun 12, 2017 16:17:38 GMT 12
Excellent. What was your final load setting & did you end up using the Phono Enhancer?
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Post by sub on Jun 12, 2017 17:23:20 GMT 12
Excellent. What was your final load setting & did you end up using the Phono Enhancer? Final load setting is 220 ohms, and yes, the phono enhancer is engaged - has been all along. I refer to it in my OP as Dr. T mode, so a small change was made in that setting as well. Might change the load setting to 470ohms one day, just to see, but will make sure I get to know how things sound in this set up first.
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Post by Owen Y on Jun 12, 2017 17:32:04 GMT 12
Yes, get totally familiar with a setting, days/weeks, take time. 103R coil impedance is specified 14 ohms & you need at least say 5-10x load => say 140 - 280 ohms (min.). So you are in the ballpark.
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Post by michaelw on Jun 12, 2017 19:19:45 GMT 12
iirc (and i should know having reviewed all 3 iterations) in dr t mode the input resistor is bypassed, effectively presenting the cartridge with a short circuit, turning the p75 into a current amplifier.
as such the load settings are irrelevant, what is important is to set the dr t mode correctly in accordance with your cartridge's internal impedance.
3 settings are offered;
low - for cartridge internal impedance of 4-10 ohms
med - 10-20 ohms
high - 20-50 ohms
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Post by Citroen on Jun 12, 2017 19:34:32 GMT 12
Bang on Michael.
I always used PE Mode with my 103R's. The load settings are bypassed and so irrelevant.
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Post by sub on Jun 12, 2017 21:32:02 GMT 12
iirc (and i should know having reviewed all 3 iterations) in dr t mode the input resistor is bypassed, effectively presenting the cartridge with a short circuit, turning the p75 into a current amplifier. as such the load settings are irrelevant, what is important is to set the dr t mode correctly in accordance with your cartridge's internal impedance. 3 settings are offered; low - for cartridge internal impedance of 4-10 ohms med - 10-20 ohms high - 20-50 ohms Have learnt something new! Does not say that in the owner instruction folder, or if it does, not in a way that I understand! The setting i have used from day 1, is med - 10-20 ohms, to suit the 103Rs quoted impedance of 14. so the difference I am hearing is the result of the small change made by inserting a jumper at positions 11 & 12 in JB2?
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Post by Citroen on Jun 12, 2017 21:53:35 GMT 12
The P75/3 does not have a 500 ohm setting,nor 200 - has 470 and 220, so up first I changed settings to 220. I also changed one jumper on the DrT settings, inserting one at position 11-12 as well as positions 1-2 and 9-10. Those settings ARE the Dr T mode  What settings did you use to "change to 220"? As below JB1 and 2 only have a jumper at 7 & 8 for 220. Dr T mode has JB1 and 2 populated by jumpers at 1-2, 9-10, 11-12. 
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Post by sub on Jun 12, 2017 22:08:19 GMT 12
Had another read/study of the instructions! Not arguing, just trying to understand.
On the page headed "Jumper Locations & Settings", it says at bottom of page "Standard Settings - factory settings are set for low output mc - 100ohm, 63dB gain", and then gives a diagram showing those settings. The diagram seems to imply that standard settings are set on JBs 1, 3 & 5, while enhancer mode is set on JBs 2, 4 & 6.
The diagram showing standard settings illustrates jumpers in all 6 of the above numbered JBs!?
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Post by Citroen on Jun 12, 2017 22:31:25 GMT 12
JB 1,3 & 5 cf JB 2, 4 & 6 represent the left and right channels. So the jumpers you set in JB1 should the same as in JB2 ( Left and right channels), jumpers in JB3 same as JB4 etc PE mode has JB 1 & 2 jumpers set at 1, 2, 9, 10, 11 & 12 Low Output MC has JB 1 & 2 set as below 
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Post by sub on Jun 12, 2017 22:44:31 GMT 12
Wrote above before seeing Citroen's last post.
To set 220 ohms I inserted jumpers at 3-4 and 7-8 in JB 1.
To select enhancer mode I inserted jumpers at 1-2, 9-10 & 11-12 in JB 2
I have kept the jumper at 3-4 in JB 4 for medium resistance.
If I read you correctly Citroen, in Enhance mode, JBs 1 & 2 jumpers should match, as well as JBs 3&4?
Wish the instructions were a little clearer. As per my post above, my reading led me to understand that JBs 1,3,5 are to set standard mode and JBs 2,4,6 are to set enhancer mode!
Be too busy tomorrow, but Wednesday looks as if I will be taking the lid off the P75/3 again!
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Post by sub on Jun 12, 2017 22:48:33 GMT 12
JB 1,3 & 5 cf JB 2, 4 & 6 represent the left and right channels. So the jumpers you set in JB1 should the same as in JB2 ( Left and right channels), jumpers in JB3 same as JB4 etc PE mode has JB 1 & 2 jumpers set at 1, 2, 9, 10, 11 & 12 Low Output MC has JB 1 & 2 set as below Got it at last! Our posts crossed again. I expect to hear changes on Wednesday - thanks.
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Post by Citroen on Jun 12, 2017 22:58:25 GMT 12
In all modes (mm, MC, PE) the pairs should match as one is the left channel and the other the right channel. One channel is JB 1,3,5,7. The other channel is JB 2,4,6,8.
Sounds like you have one channel set at 220 ohms and the other channel in PE mode.
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Post by sub on Jun 13, 2017 14:43:22 GMT 12
In all modes (mm, MC, PE) the pairs should match as one is the left channel and the other the right channel. One channel is JB 1,3,5,7. The other channel is JB 2,4,6,8. Sounds like you have one channel set at 220 ohms and the other channel in PE mode. Yep, exactly how I have it set. If the instructions said that each bank of JBs were connected respectively to R and L channels, it would be clear! the assumption I made from looking at the.set up was one bank controlled input and the other output, as one set of JBs is adjacent to the input, and the other to the output. And they are not symmetrically placed. must email Dynavector and ask them to make the instructions a little clearer! thanks again for the help 
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Post by michaelw on Jun 13, 2017 15:09:13 GMT 12
no, the jumpers are not symmetrical but the latest mk3 is an improvement over earlier p75's.
i thought the instructions were ok, a bigger problem is physically handling the itsy bitsy jumpers.
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Post by Citroen on Jun 13, 2017 15:30:29 GMT 12
The problem is you have to open up the box.
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Post by sub on Jun 13, 2017 19:09:39 GMT 12
no, the jumpers are not symmetrical but the latest mk3 is an improvement over earlier p75's. i thought the instructions were ok, a bigger problem is physically handling the itsy bitsy jumpers. Red face here! Re-reading the instructions highlights my mistakes! The jumpers get easier to handle with practice, and have had plenty of that recently. have now set both jumper banks at same (phono enhancer) settings. While tonally not a lot of difference between having jumper bank one set for 220ohms and bank two set at enhancer mode, there is a major difference in several respects - - volume at just above 9 is fine, whereas before I had to wind it up to 12 - mid range now just flows - bass has more rhythym and flows easily - highs are refined with no coarseness The Eagles now sound like the Eagles; Bread's lead singer (Gates) is now smooth and sweet; Jaqueline du Prez cello sounds like a cello; Neil Young is the man! yes, lost in the past, and not too many new releases on the shelf here. Colour me red!
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Pundit
Post by neilsan on Jun 13, 2017 20:29:06 GMT 12
The problem is you have to open up the box. But first you have to find the allen key!
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Post by sub on Jun 13, 2017 21:20:44 GMT 12
i thought the instructions were ok In self defence, I am among those who do not easily digest technical information. I have a mind that finds numbers, except for basic arithmetic, illogical! I know that many people find numbers easy to work with and indeed some say that mathematics embraces the very stuff of life. I have spent most of my working life dealing with legal issues, and I love words that are prescriptive, but that also combine philosophies to underpin their context with life as we experience it! I like instructions that are detailed and prescriptive. The discussions elsewhere on Darklantern, e.g. about the geometry involved with cartridge protractors, or about technical aspects of valves, are totally outside my ability to understand! Which is not intended as a put down for those who do understand and embrace that alternative logic! If they did not exist we would not have the technical marvels we use today. The instructions for the Dynavector I can understand only in hindsight after explanations by michaelw and Citroen. Which to a non-techie like me means the instructions need to be clearer! And of course the same can be said about many other instruction manuals - Denon is a prime example of how it should not be done!
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Post by Owen Y on Jun 13, 2017 23:20:42 GMT 12
I found the P75 instructions to be a bit opaque 
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Post by michaelw on Jun 13, 2017 23:56:56 GMT 12
i must have gotten used to them after three iterations. still hate those jumpers... 
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Post by Owen Y on Jun 14, 2017 9:43:42 GMT 12
Jumpers are arguably better than DIP switches, maybe?
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Post by sub on Jun 21, 2017 19:16:40 GMT 12
Here is fighting talk, look in on another forum from time to time, a thread on the Dynavector P75/3, brought the following g post -
D
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Post by Citroen on Jun 21, 2017 19:26:10 GMT 12
I have no idea how the phono enhancer mode works, except that it sounds the best to my aged, wax coated ears! 
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Post by Graham on Jun 21, 2017 21:07:02 GMT 12
I read somewhere that the Enhancer simply provided 47k ohms load ( ie pretty much unloaded )to the MC mode.
Could be wrong of course.
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Post by sub on Jun 21, 2017 21:48:59 GMT 12
I do not know how it works, either, but a guy (and by the flag beside his user name, is an Aussie) who seems to know what he is talking about, responded to the quote above, as follows -
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Post by michaelw on Jun 21, 2017 22:21:28 GMT 12
I read somewhere that the Enhancer simply provided 47k ohms load ( ie pretty much unloaded )to the MC mode. Could be wrong of course. if true, i approve ! other guy was way wrong, dr t mode is not an equaliser.
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Post by Owen Y on Jun 22, 2017 10:02:01 GMT 12
It would be good to see a schematic of the Enhancer cct. Or even a reliable technical description.
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