I'm pretty sure I'd have bought this amp, 'unheard'  ...if I'd the readies as a 20yr old 
...steampunk vol control and those meters... 

Approx. NZ$10,500
www.hifichoice.com/content/hifi-rose-debuts-ra180-integrated-amplifier
eng.hifirose.com/RA180

"I see music as a lifetime affair." [Rory Gallagher]

Nope. Too busy and meters too small!

I liked it a lot when I saw it a few weeks ago;- that modern take on steampunk but with superb functionality.
Darko did a brief review, surely others too. I don't remember where I saw it first now.
darko.audio/2022/05/the-hifi-rose-ra180-looks-totally-bonkers/

$10.5k as mentioned will apparently get you one in NZ.
addictedtoaudio.co.nz/collections/hifi-rose/products/hifi-rose-ra180-integrated-amplifier

But as above go directly to the manufactures site for better pictures (scroll just over half way down for this one of the front again) and specs, etc.
eng.hifirose.com/RA180



I liked seeing the geared L-R separate pots. I've not been so keen on separate volume controls, although I've experienced inaccurate tracking on stereo pots...
Provided that they could be disengaged, to adjust if necessary, perhaps. Some sort of clutch?

That said, I have an old Rait 30-30 preamp here that has separate controls (I managed to power it independently) and ... an old brass clock, with a pair of identical gears.
Hmm. ;=}) No-one seemed to want it. I had already replaced the sensible dual linear pots for each channel, the older ones were hopelessly compromised and deteriorated.
Replaced a few caps. Perhaps it might be fun to turn it slightly steampunk? With its own PSU? Or hardly worth the effort?  Anyway, I like and rejoice in the busy face-plate.

That said, I've acquired - been given - a Marathon MA-3000 power amplifier with separate L-R input controls, recently. I found that it was easy to adjust levels on test.
I'll save it for whenever one day I might acquire difficult to drive speakers, or panels, or pass it on...

Jun 28, 2022 17:45:05 GMT 12 Citroen said:

Nope. Too busy and meters too small!

Yahaha, get with it Monsieur Citroen...it could just be the NAD3020 of the 21st century.   

"I see music as a lifetime affair." [Rory Gallagher]

Not at $10,500

The NAD 3020 of the 21st Century is...

The NAD (D)3020

Beautifully built like a Swiss watch but possibly too conservative to be considered eye catching ?

Jun 30, 2022 14:16:27 GMT 12 michaelw said:

Beautifully built like a Swiss watch but possibly too conservative to be considered eye catching ?

Great pic, prompted me to go looking for references to it.

www.cjm-audio.de/  is obviously a s/h outlet, must have sold from there.

A few exotic if not quite whacky speakers in view on a scroll down at this time, and opening each in a new tab brings eye watering detail! ;-)

So, an offer for sale and a few reviews in the forum comments:

www.audioantiquary.com/en-us/swiss-physics-model-5-6a-7747/

www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/swiss-physics-arrived-old-top-suisse-amp.28964/

Cheers !!

Good links, didn't know the designer went to Goldmund.

Seen these in the metal in Hong Kong back in the 1990's

Jun 30, 2022 14:16:27 GMT 12 michaelw said:

Beautifully built like a Swiss watch but possibly too conservative to be considered eye catching ?

I forgot to add;- those angled corner infills look more like polished copper than wood, artificial or not.

From the above forum comments, used heat pipes and fans.

But at least it has 10 inputs !!!!!!!!!!

My currently in use Sony TA-AV670 has about 10-11 A/V inputs and I am already contemplating an external switch box.

I already have one for two turntables externally, and look forward to a phono preamp with separate inputs and separately adjustable settings.

(It's just an early '90s Dolby Pro-Logic amp, temporarily back in the system, although owned from sale new, while a 125W Denon is in abeyance.)

(That's a generic photo; here's what mine looked like hooked up 8 years ago at the old place. Cabling further improved now.)

(The brown cables are Van de Hul, the cheaply made up interconnects silver plated copper)

If I were building a preamp with relay controlled inputs I would definitely go for the 10 input version over the 4 or 5.

(I can't find the link for last view of one I thought I'd bookmarked.)

What I miss on modern amps are tape loops



Problem solved, I have a Yamaha AVS700 in the attic, fixed or variable stereo only outputs, plenty of inputs including a decent MM phono stage, capable of handling four tape decks with independent listen/recording

Jul 1, 2022 10:46:15 GMT 12 michaelw said:

What I miss on modern amps are tape loops

Yes a much loved feature on my old amps.

An amp in each of 3 rooms at the old place, I could send or receive at will, to or from each 2nd tape loop.

The separate input/rec out features ... the TA-AV670 allows audio rec out selection and or mixing of video with different audio inputs to outputs.

I note looking at schematics that it has a buffered rec out stage. Electronic switching.

My TA-F540E also bought new, earlier, has separate input/rec-out selectors (as did the Cyrus One I found later) but they are not buffered. They are switched separately, but the destination will load down the source.

Mechanical switching. I had to do some serious switch dismantling and cleaning some years later. It did do some years in a kitchen dining room. I suspected atmospheric effects. Gunge. Now in protection mode ...

(I'd been looking at both schematics for phono input capacitance tonight, and intending to measure the rest of the cables, having just made up 1.75m for another input further away, 103pF.)

One has inbuilt 150pF, the other 100pF. This might be more than desirable, after measuring cables, so ... I'm considering lifting those input caps depending on what I measure of the cables. (disconnected cartridge.)

That's a plain face plate I like too. 6 inputs. Totally manual, no remote.

But the switches dismantling ... I had to unsolder the covers, then clean the switch contacts. Black, filthy, but came clean.

This is a bit off topic.

Except for the likeable plain face plate of the TA-F540E, which I hope to get going again soon.

Cheers !

So, are you and Michaelw using "tape loop" outputs like pre-outs for more than tape recording??

Done that in the past, in many older designs the tape loop was the purest audio output.

Harry Pearson called it "hotrodding".

Nowadays I just want to hookup a couple of tape decks for playback and recording.

Back on topic...

Audio Research Galileo series - think they stopped making them

Jul 2, 2022 8:52:21 GMT 12 paulsaints said:

So, are you and Michaelw using "tape loop" outputs like pre-outs for more than tape recording??

Well in the old place as described I had an amp in lounge, kitchen/dining, and bedroom, all between Tape 2 on 3 amps.

Strung salvage RG-?? coax up through the old high ceilings and through the roof space down to each other room.

(75 ohm likely, also had 50 ohm, immaterial for audio. A tiny HF roll off with long runs, far better than long speaker cable though, and control in each room.)

Now in the new small place, just one stereo system in the lounge, but Tape 1 is to a cassette deck, Tape 2 will go an old M-Audio Audiophile USB I was gifted.

Nearly finished making up longer cables for it, it's in the long side L of my stereo rack. Below it will be a PC I'm tweaking; there's a mic preamp & Sony DV pro deck.

And tape CD and more LP storage below. Above is where two turntables sit, on 2x 30mm mdf slabs with a layer of hard foam between.

I'm still using 10 inputs easily. If I want to have sound to the bathroom (oops 4 rooms in the old place) it'll have to be via aptx bluetooth.

Jul 2, 2022 10:17:58 GMT 12 michaelw said:

Done that in the past, in many older designs the tape loop was the purest audio output.

Harry Pearson called it "hotrodding".

Nowadays I just want to hookup a couple of tape decks for playback and recording.

I'll have to look up the Harry Pearson instance, unless you can find a link?

The reason I mentioned having a buffer stage for the record out etc. is because I'd remembered reading (and various online searches don't find it again now) that ...

Having a turned off cassette deck connected through an unbuffered (just paralleled with input) will cause distortion, because its front (un-powered) transistor is a non linear load ?

I forget, exactly. Maybe it's in articles I've saved. Anyway I was exercised about this concept for a while back, trying to set Record out to something other than Source, while I had a tapedeck (and hifi vhs) connected but off.

Maybe colinf can comment.

Anyway, your Yamaha AVS700 might well have electronic switching and maybe buffered outputs. No schematic there though.

OK, back on topic (although sometimes sideways wanders are interesting!).

His reviews were in the print issues of The Absolute Sound circa. 1990s, don't they are available online.

For his ARC SP11 review he found the best sound was got by bypassing most of the SP11's circuitry and feeding the SP11's tape output straight into his power amp.

Success heavily dependent on careful level matching between cartridge, phono stage and power amp sensitivity.

Limited practicality.

Unless I'm very much mistaken, the Yamaha was not sophisticated enough to have buffered inputs/outputs.

Jul 2, 2022 21:05:02 GMT 12 michaelw said:

His reviews were in the print issues of The Absolute Sound circa. 1990s, don't they are available online.

For his ARC SP11 review he found the best sound was got by bypassing most of the SP11's circuitry and feeding the SP11's tape output straight into his power amp.

Success heavily dependent on careful level matching between cartridge, phono stage and power amp sensitivity.

Limited practicality.

Unless I'm very much mistaken, the Yamaha was not sophisticated enough to have buffered inputs/outputs.

Funnily, I've just spent hours looking through some incredibly long web pages at select45rpm.com/index.html this afternoon. In the HiFi section.

Very interestingly opinionated on early amps. He has 15" Tannoys to judge by.

You won't know if the Yamaha does or doesn't until you can see the schematics.

But maybe you can set up a test? Is the sound different with a connected deck switched on or off?

Does it change if Rec Out is set to another input than that deck?

Can it be measured? Etc. ;- ?

The input impedance of transistor circuits can become quite non-linear (almost like parallel-connected diodes) when not powered. For the record out of a tape deck, it would depend on specifics of the design, eg. if there’s a record level pot as the first device encountered before the recording circuitry. In that case, with the deck off, turn the recording volume to 0.
Buffered tape outputs can be good if the output impedance of the recording source is high and easily degraded by non-linearities or potentially low input impedance of the recorder.
It’s usually true that bypassing the line stage by extracting signal from the tape output results in better sonic transparency. You’d then need volume control on the subsequently connected device but some like to bypass even that for best sonics, if the levels are tolerable.
BTW The Hifi Rose amp above looks great in the metal!

AMR-iFi R&D

Jul 3, 2022 0:34:53 GMT 12 colinf said:

The input impedance of transistor circuits can become quite non-linear (almost like parallel-connected diodes) when not powered.
For the record out of a tape deck, it would depend on specifics of the design, eg. if there’s a record level pot as the first device encountered before the recording circuitry. In that case, with the deck off, turn the recording volume to 0. 

Thanks for that!

I have a Sony TC-RX80ES in play in my system, and a perhaps better Sony TC-K333ESX in the workroom awaiting final inspection..

Both schematics show a pot before any active circuitry for line in. So that's good to know! I can just make sure that they're set at 0.

Of course I was thinking of the paralleled unbuffered record out line from the amplifier potentially being affected by a tapedeck input.

Back on topic again ...

Admiring Nagra designs:

www.nagraaudio.com/the-high-end-collection/