Post by Owen Y on Apr 4, 2017 10:06:28 GMT 12
Mr Fremer says: www.analogplanet.com/content/throw-away-your-old-audioquest-carbon-fiber-brush#svX1KetwoIFX4D4s.97We only occasionally have problems in our humid climate, but as explained by a biochemist: " ....records will accumulate a negative charge. They aren't made that way...they BECOME that way. Vinyl records are not good conductors (rather, they are insulators). Things like towels, sleeves, and even clothing impart this charge on the surface during handling (via rubbing together and separating - see "Triboelectric effect"). Furthermore, as PVC degrades, it produces acid that remains on the surface and contributes to the negative change.
This charge will find a way to neutralize, hence the pops or sparks associated with static discharge. It can also find neutralization by interacting with charged dust particles so the...record actually attracts dirt." 
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Post by Owen Y on Apr 4, 2017 10:12:06 GMT 12
Quickly checking my own carbon fibre brush, which I've used for eons - Mr Fremer is right, zero conductivity between fibres & handle (because the fibres are held in a plastic strip inside the handle). 
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Post by guitardude on Apr 4, 2017 10:25:17 GMT 12
Ok, so what do we use instead then ?
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Post by Graham on Apr 4, 2017 11:30:34 GMT 12
Simple solution !!!!!!
Don't throw it away.
On mine I have drilled a hole and inserted a small screw that when screwed in makes contact with the carbon fibres inside. This them provided a path to the outer handle for grounding. To be extra sure of grounding make sure a finger is contacting the screw head.
Cheers Graham 
 html multiple images
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Post by Owen Y on Apr 4, 2017 13:51:10 GMT 12
Ok, so what do we use instead then ? I don't use the brush so much any more, I don't touch the record unless there is dust. And if it's dirty, I'll clean it. Actually, the main problem is that the aluminium handle is anodised & as we know  anodic oxide is electrically non-conductive - so you could just sand off some of the silver anodising for starters (fine emery paper) - be sure no fine metal debris gets deposited into the brush.
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Post by guitardude on Apr 4, 2017 15:21:03 GMT 12
The only time I use a brush is with my RCM. That brush has a wooden handle and horsehair bristles I believe. My chemistry is far too rusty to determine the ionic effect upon a spinning vinyl record.
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Pundit
Post by Gryffles on Apr 4, 2017 15:24:19 GMT 12
The AM Denmark brush I recently purchased does conduct from bristle to handle.
Got it from Southbound.
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Post by Citroen on Apr 4, 2017 18:52:16 GMT 12
No, I'll keep using my Super Exstatic (and others) to catch those stray dog hairs. 
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Post by michaelw on Apr 5, 2017 11:36:41 GMT 12
^^^ what a collection !
all i have are a few last stylus brushes, a goldring (made in england) and a hunt.
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Post by guitardude on Apr 5, 2017 15:24:03 GMT 12
Hey Citroen,
Thanks for that ! I thought I had a problem....
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Post by Owen Y on Apr 5, 2017 16:19:16 GMT 12
" You can tell a lot about an audiophile from his record accessories collection." 
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Post by RdM on Apr 5, 2017 19:17:49 GMT 12
I have a "Hunt EDA Mark 6 Brush", and measure a pretty consistent ~75k ohms between anywhere on the fibres and the metal handle.
This is low enough to drain any static, I'd think. It's worked pretty well for me, with visible dust collection.
Unlike some of the commentators on the Fremer post, I think the carbon fibres are fine enough to get into the grooves... my opinion.
(No photo, but it's like the Super Exstatic one above, two rows of fibres and a velvet pad between.)
As for conductivity of the handle, it's pretty well zero ohms from end to end.
I do have another one somewhere like the Goldring illustration, I recall two rows of closely spaced fibres with no pad between, and an earth wire plug connection, but can't find it... when I do I'll measure that too.
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Post by Citroen on Apr 5, 2017 19:17:49 GMT 12
^^^ what a collection ! all i have are a few last stylus brushes, a goldring (made in england) and a hunt. All you have? That's more than most! " You can tell a lot about an audiophile from his record accessories collection." Such as?  I have quite a few more stylus brushes (that usually came with carts), and also a few more record brushes including the Audioquest one in question (which I use at work). Hey Citroen, Thanks for that ! I thought I had a problem.... Problem? Its not a problem, its an endearing idiosyntricity!
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Post by RdM on Apr 5, 2017 19:27:02 GMT 12
Actually, the main problem is that the aluminium handle is anodised & as we know anodic oxide is electrically non-conductive - so you could just sand off some of the silver anodising for starters (fine emery paper) - be sure no fine metal debris gets deposited into the brush. Owen, I'm not too sure of this, and am confused by your terminology as well... We know aluminium oxidises quickly, within minutes of a clean cut exposed to air as I recall, and that aluminum oxide is not very conductive, but this is not the same as anodising, is it? (I'm not sure, I thought that a deliberate process, I could look up but this is just off the top of my head;-) "silver anodising?" (if it were silver plated, it's be conductive enough! ... maybe you meant just the colour?) Maybe they can electroplate it with something conductive though. Anyway, I've put my DMM probes on my handle, and it's practically zero ohms end to end, as reported above. Perhaps you could probe yours and see how conductive it is? Just thinking aloud, as it were... Cheers! ~ Ross
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Post by Owen Y on Apr 5, 2017 20:02:18 GMT 12
Hi Ross, perhaps poor use of terminology by me.... Anodising - is an alloy treatment that forms a surface coating (not sure if 'oxide' is the correct term), which is non-conductive - confirmed by measuring. However, if you 'dig' your probes into the handle, you dig into the underlying aluminium, which is then conductive & measures close to zero ohms. 'Silver anodising' - is a common term, but not the correct name for 'natural anodising' - which is anodising without any dye colour (eg. black, blue, red...etc). Carbon fibres - are conductive (very low ohms resistance). You can see from the brush construction (below) that the anodised metal handle will prevent conductivity from fibres to the hand - max. ohms or 'OL' on the ohm meter.. Graham's idea should work, but as said, I'd sand off the anodising first on the handle outer 2 faces. Or 'countersink' the screw. I found that just sanding the anodising off (without a screw) gets you down to ~100 ohms between bristles & the handle outer. 
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Post by Owen Y on Apr 5, 2017 20:12:03 GMT 12
This may all seem like a grand waste of time, but it does illustrate how assumptions we sometimes make can be wishful thinking - eg. that (all of) these brushes conduct away static electricity.
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Post by RdM on Apr 5, 2017 20:26:28 GMT 12
Hmm, ta Owen
I didn't particularly dig the probes into my Hunt handle, pretty well just touched them.
But 100 ohms to carbon fibres is a long way from my 75k ohms, although that might be enough with such low current flow.
I'll have a look at the other one I have, more like your photo, when I find it.
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Post by Owen Y on Apr 6, 2017 9:41:43 GMT 12
Hi Ross - yes 75kohms is high R, caused presumably by the anodised finish on the handle. Here is my generic type brush, with anodising lightly sanded off (red probe) & using a hook probe (black) on the fibre bristles for better contact while I hold the phone camera(!) - 96.9 ohms 
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Post by michaelw on Apr 6, 2017 17:46:18 GMT 12
how did ross manage 75k ohms ? 
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Post by Owen Y on Apr 6, 2017 20:39:59 GMT 12
how did ross manage 75k ohms ? The anodised coating may be thin or worn, thus giving high resistance, low conductivity. Or, his probes may be sharp. Or blunt
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Post by RdM on Apr 7, 2017 22:16:53 GMT 12
Hey thanks chaps I've been a bit busy & stressed, will have to get back to this!
Photos with meter and etc. Later.
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Post by Owen Y on Aug 8, 2017 17:01:39 GMT 12
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Post by michaelw on Aug 8, 2017 17:11:03 GMT 12
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Post by Citroen on Aug 8, 2017 17:45:29 GMT 12
$40 or scratch my ones to buggery...
Time to look for the sand paper?
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anodic oxide is electrically non-conductive - so you could just sand off some of the silver anodising for starters (fine emery paper) - be sure no fine metal debris gets deposited into the brush.
