Pundit
Post by Dom on May 7, 2019 16:36:23 GMT 12
Hi there,
I'm taking my time getting to know this 301 and it's a very organic thing. I sometimes miss my Linn and might try it again sometime.
The core business is - I know mono is best with a mono cart and I'm now investigating the cheaper ones. It's a PIA that Grado has no NZ rep (last I heard) as theirs seem good value.
So, really, is it worth getting a mono cart when my phono stage is strictly stereo? Cheers, Dom
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Post by cartridgeguyonline on May 7, 2019 16:51:14 GMT 12
Hi Dom,
I never ended up going down that particular rabbit hole myself as all my amps have a mono button so I let that suffice. I was also worried about a mono cartridge damaging stereo records. I know Cooksferry went the Mono AT route, so hopefully he will weigh in here.
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Post by cooksferry on May 7, 2019 16:55:21 GMT 12
I found a noticeable difference playing back in mono, especially on older worn albums. Switching to mono really cut most of the background surface noise on my Stones lps. I have a 4 way mono/stereo switch and a reasonable Audio Technica mono cartridge(AT mono 33). I've never really found a huge difference using both switch and cart together, either one or the other works fine by themselves. Highly recommend trying one or the other. eu.audio-technica.com/cartridges/moving-coil/AT33MONOI actually made a simple mono switch block as a trial unit and when that worked I got Lloyd Peppard at Mapletree Audio to make me a nice little unit. If you like I can send you my trial unit for you to have a play.
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Post by colinf on May 7, 2019 19:34:50 GMT 12
Although a mono switch on the amp joins the two channels together, the left and right signals coming off a stereo cartridge pick up both horizontal (mono) information and vertical (left minus right) information at 45 degrees to the record surface. A mono cartridge only picks up horizontal information. Because the coil is arranged horizontally instead of at 45 degrees to the horizontal movement as in a stereo cartridge, the 45 degree noise is reduced by a factor of 1.4 times, and vertical noise is ignored altogether. Playing a stereo record on a mono cartridge (assuming the mono cartridge is designed to be compatible with stereo records and has vertical compliance), you can expect the mono component to be more prominent than a pure left or pure right signal by 1.4 times, and any pure out-of-phase signal (vertical) to be completely ignored.
AMR-iFi R&D
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Pundit
Post by belbo on May 7, 2019 19:45:23 GMT 12
I'm also currently using a simple solution for merging the 2 channels for mono but have always wondered about a dedicated mono cartridge. Don't forget you can still find the Denon DL-102 new (and this particular one will not harm any stereo records either), having said that I'm also wondering how big of a difference this is vs a simple switch solution.
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Pundit
Post by Dom on May 8, 2019 21:57:43 GMT 12
Cooks, I like A-T but am going through a mild MM phase atm. I am quite enjoying the thrill of swapping headshells on my SME. I guess a good recipe would be one headshell/cart that allows me to use either a 78 stylus or a mono one. Does such a thing exist? I'm confused as to why some I've seen have 4 pins on the back when there's no L/R signal. I've got an old one with just two. Colinf, I've asked Graham Slee about retro-fitting a mono switch to my phono stages.
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Post by Citroen on May 8, 2019 22:44:32 GMT 12
My Gram Slee Reflex Era Gold has an optional mono stereo switch  I used to use a Denon DL-102  but found the benefits of using a dedicated mono cart so addictive that I upgraded to a Lyra Dorian mono  I don't bother switching my preamp to mono when using the Dorian.
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Post by cooksferry on May 9, 2019 7:44:31 GMT 12
Nice looking cartridge and unlike the AT mono you can actually see the stylus to aid setup. I've been meaning to refit the AT mono back on the Wand arm but I've been enjoying the pairing with the Hana SL so haven't quite got there yet.
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Back to mono May 9, 2019 8:56:50 GMT 12
via mobile - Edited May 9, 2019 8:59:29 GMT 12 by colinf
Post by colinf on May 9, 2019 8:56:50 GMT 12
Dom, the AT cartridge has two horizontal coils independent from each other with the same signal output so you can use a stereo preamp with it and get the same signal out of both channels. The Denon has a single coil but has extra long connecting pins so you can slide both the left and the right channel headshell wires onto them. The coil impedance has been designed to operate both channels of the phono input at the same time. On a stereo preamp with a mono cartridge connected it's still good to select the mono switch to mono, as then the stereo amplifier noise from the left and right channels cancels out. That's assuming the mono switch is electronically located after the phono amplifier stage, as most seem to be. I'm not sure though how the mono switch on the Graham Slee phono stage specifically works i.e. Whether it is on the input or the output of the circuit.
AMR-iFi R&D
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Pundit
Post by beeman on May 9, 2019 17:05:42 GMT 12
I use a NOS (well it was when I fitted it) GE cart on a Grey arm for mono. I was not ready for the sound it produced, so alive & immediate. I use a splitter to split the mono signal to 2 x channels. I have a lovely Dave Brubeck record I could not understand why it did not sound better in stereo. Until I played it in mono - wow that's how it was recorded to be played.
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Pundit
Post by belbo on May 10, 2019 2:33:27 GMT 12
My Gram Slee Reflex Era Gold has an optional mono stereo switch I used to use a Denon DL-102 but found the benefits of using a dedicated mono cart so addictive that I upgraded to a Lyra Dorian mono I don't bother switching my preamp to mono when using the Dorian. So you found a big difference between the switch vs the dedicated mono cartridge?
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Post by Citroen on May 10, 2019 9:05:22 GMT 12
Using a mono cart the sound is fuller and much quieter than just using a mono switch with a stereo cart.
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Post by cartridgeguyonline on May 10, 2019 17:21:47 GMT 12
Interesting but I suppose it all boils down to what the program material is you are playing ? At mine I have the Beatles in mono set which I never play so no point in buying a cart to play that ( I dont really listen to the Beatles now at all TBH ), Paramount records box set vol 2: but is it worth the price of a cart to play records that have been digitally remastered from 78's ? Which leaves A Decca Mono box of classical and a few Ella Fitzgerald and Frank Sinatra mono LP's which generally sound pretty excellent anyway. Plus a few odd rock albums in Mono such as some early stones, the first Dr Feelgood and the like: Hardly hi fidelity fare from the off ?
Which lP's have you found to be particulary worthwhile citroen ?
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Post by Citroen on May 11, 2019 0:30:36 GMT 12
In general, the older and more worn the better the improvement.
With new mono releases such as the Beatles mono boxset I found that using a stereo cart is fine.
Not that I have a lot of mono records but with older classical lps with works from such as Furtwangler, Barbirolli, or older jazz Ella, Billie Holiday, Monk, Coltrane a rock solid clean central image can be a glorious thing.
I don't have many early mono rock records but the odd abused one can be made quite listenable.
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Pundit
Post by Dom on May 11, 2019 11:29:26 GMT 12
Lots to chew over there, thanks all. Grado seems to cover my needs but I'm not sure about the old Moving Iron buzz as the arm gets closer to the motor. Has anyone successfully used Grado on a 301 or 401? Cheers, Dom
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Post by Citroen on May 11, 2019 12:10:50 GMT 12
I tried a Cartridgeman Music Maker III (glorified Grado) with an Analogue Instruments on a 401 which I couldn't quite tame that buzz.
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Pundit
Post by beeman on May 12, 2019 0:11:34 GMT 12
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Pundit
Post by Dom on Jan 29, 2020 7:54:52 GMT 12
As outlined in my phono-stage-upgrade thread, I had both my Graham Slee (MM/MC) retro-fitted with mono switches, last October. For anyone wondering, I can't recommend a mono facility highly enough. I never realised how often I would be using it; how many mono records I have: jazz, early -> mid-'60s rock and pop, crooners, DG and Decca classicals etc., etc. The simplest way to describe the benefits are A) much lower noise with some more, shall we say, "distressed" pressings. B) greater intimacy on offer, allowing me a far deeper visual picture of what was going on in each recording studio when the red light went on; where they sat. Case in point: I recently picked up a UK mono Decca "World of Hits" pop compilation (Cat no. PA7/SPA7) that had lots of songs I like. Opening with "Whiter Shade" you're reminded that singles were often mixed far louder. Being the opening track, it sounds really great, the best I've heard it. On the other side, Them's "Gloria" takes absolutely no prisoners. If parents feared their daughters liking the Stones, they'd have fainted at this. Everything sounds so close-up you can picture the band almost pushed into a corner, trying to fight their way out. Something like a Columbia 6-eye (whether Miles or Tony) has me looking upward into the ceiling of that studio as the reverb tails join like smoke. A nice 1954 Philips minigroove pressing of "The Nutcracker" (NBL5005) had me checking whether I'd left the bass turned up. Hey, maybe this would all happen with stereo pressings but I probably wouldn't be talking about it then. My master-plan includes finding a mono cartridge I like and eventually setting up my Leak TL12+ with one speaker - perhaps even a single ESL!? Who else has some love for mono?
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