Post by Owen Y on Jan 23, 2019 9:34:23 GMT 12
In preparation for a SP-10 plinth build, I thought we'd open a thread for this vintage TT which still seems to generate interest. We've discussed the SP-10 here before from time to time, eg... - The direct drive thread. - Vintage Japanese DD tables - are they worth pursuing?- Technics SP10 plinthThe MKII/MK2 version was manufactured from ~1975 I believe. [ Edit: I have since seen a SP-10 Mk2 with date label Aug 1987.) I've had this SP-10MKII (model SP-10MKII-XAL, manufactured 25 Mar 1980) since ~2000. It came originally from a radio station in Perth.  It comes with a 'Power Unit" (SH-10E): 
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Pundit
Post by audionut on Jan 23, 2019 10:04:55 GMT 12
Look forward to seeing what you do to this baby Owen. Are you thing of sending it to Richard to work his magic ... krebsupgrade.com/ ?
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Post by Owen Y on Jan 23, 2019 11:34:02 GMT 12
Greetings audionut - Richard & I have discussed this a bit in passing, I am aware of Richard's philosophy & work here, excellent from all reports. A pic of the SP-10 with its platter removed: 
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Post by michaelw on Jan 23, 2019 13:33:42 GMT 12
eagerly awaiting further episodes  where did you get the build date from ? couldn't find that info on my one 
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Post by Owen Y on Jan 23, 2019 13:58:01 GMT 12
where did you get the build date from ? couldn't find that info on my one (Visible on any of your GennLabs pics?) 
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Post by michaelw on Jan 23, 2019 15:04:46 GMT 12
nope.
what's that a pic of ?
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Post by Owen Y on Jan 23, 2019 18:16:58 GMT 12
The above pic is the underside of the motor. With the SP-10 bottom cover removed, the underside of the motor is covered with motor drive/speed control circuit boards. (You can see the motor-platter main bearing pictured above, protruding through the middle below.) 
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Post by Owen Y on Jan 23, 2019 18:39:49 GMT 12
The motor is actually removed from on top - here is a pic from the internet showing the motor extracted from the SP-10 chassis. You can see the bearing housing protruding under & the model-date labels just visible on the motor bottom. 
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Post by michaelw on Jan 23, 2019 19:27:43 GMT 12
ah ha ! i never saw that deep into mine. wish they put the build sticker in an easier to see position
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Pundit
Post by neilsan on Jan 27, 2019 8:04:28 GMT 12
Had a hunt for the photos I took when I replaced all the electrolytic caps.
Mine says 07Aug78N2
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Post by michaelw on Jan 27, 2019 11:16:01 GMT 12
Let's establish a timeline for dark lantern sp10s, that may help pin down a build date on my one.  there's a hint of a build label on one of my repair pix. 17. xxx suggests a build after owen's 15.722 table ?  
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Post by Owen Y on Jan 27, 2019 13:57:55 GMT 12
Had a hunt for the photos I took when I replaced all the electrolytic caps. Mine says 07Aug78N2 Ah yes, thanks neilsan. Do you recall, if there was any change in performance or sound after this work? Capacitor replacement is a common tweak with SP-10s - after all, these TTs & caps are now at least 35 years old. Re. Power Supply: The separate power unit supplies only DC to the TT, so there should be no problems with AC-induced hum affecting the pickup cartridge. All those PCBs (seen above) under the TT are for (i) motor drive (ii) speed control (iii) 'logic' circuitry.
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Post by Owen Y on Jan 27, 2019 14:21:40 GMT 12
Let's establish a timeline for dark lantern sp10s, that may help pin down a build date on my one. there's a hint of a build label on one of my repair pix. 17. xxx suggests a build after owen's 15.722 table ? Your 'MK2' designation might suggest later build than my 'MKII' labelling - although I have no definitive info on this MKII/MK2 model naming variation. They were produced until 1982 (according to Vintage Knob). 
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Pundit
Post by neilsan on Jan 28, 2019 11:39:15 GMT 12
Had a hunt for the photos I took when I replaced all the electrolytic caps. Mine says 07Aug78N2 Ah yes, thanks neilsan . Do you recall, if there was any change in performance or sound after this work? Capacitor replacement is a common tweak with SP-10s - after all, these TTs & caps are now at least 35 years old. Re. Power Supply: The separate power unit supplies only DC to the TT, so there should be no problems with AC-induced hum affecting the pickup cartridge. All those PCBs (seen above) under the TT are for (i) motor drive (ii) speed control (iii) 'logic' circuitry Can't say I heard any difference Owen.I was given the 10 after a friend died so decided to upgrade it before I listened to it. Heard it at his place but he had a different cartridge on it.He used the SME3/Ortofon 30 until the diamond fell off,probably because he used to lick his finger and wipe it to clean it!! Might get a new stylus for ir one day.
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Post by Owen Y on Jan 29, 2019 7:41:00 GMT 12
OK, I'd be interested in hearing what your impressions are, when you get to have a good listen to this TT. Post us some pics when/if you can - always interesting.
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Post by Owen Y on Jan 29, 2019 20:50:58 GMT 12
Underside of platter, showing strobe edge, factory-balancing machining & the 5-6mm thick rubbery dampening sheet adhered underneath. 
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Post by Owen Y on Jan 30, 2019 16:20:21 GMT 12
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Post by Owen Y on Feb 26, 2019 16:07:10 GMT 12
The SP-10 MkII bearing is moderately interesting... Firstly, its bearing shaft (7.15mm diam) seems quite small for a TT with a powerful motor - I've seen TTs specified with bearing shafts of 10mm to 20mm diam. However, the SP-10 is Direct Drive (& not belt or idler/rim driven with the motor applying side forces to the platter). Technics obviously thought that the skinny bearing was adequate. Secondly the bearing design at first appears conventional with brass sleeve & steel ball at the bottom, which supports the shaft end. However, on close examination, the shaft bottom is fitted with a plastic 'thrust pad' - some say a type of Torlon, a chemical/oil resistant plastic but which does not require lubrication. And, the steel ball does not spin, it is captive pressed into the end of the brass sleeve by the screw-on bottom cap (according to someone I've seen on the internet who has expertly examined this). Which brings us to the subject of bearing lubrication: According to KAB USA, the Technics oil specified for its DD TTs is Anderol 465, a SAE30 grade synthetic oil. KAB sell it inexpensively, but I decided to use locally available low-temp grade Mobil 1 5w-30 synthetic engine oil - which has similar low temp viscosity. (Yes, the Mobil will have all sorts of engine additives, but these are probably inconsequential in a room temperature, slow running TT bearing.) Then there's the matter of how to lubricate the SP-10 bearing - a lot has been discussed on the net about it. Technics specify that 2-3 drops should be squirted into the hole adjacent to the sub-platter spindle (see pic) every 2000 running hours (that's not much every few years) - which means that the oil actually ends up in a shallow 'well' formed around the top of the motor bearing sleeve (see pic) & then slowly seeps down to lubricate the sleeve & bearing shaft. In other words, the sleeve with ball does not need to be pre-filled with oil.    
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Post by michaelw on Aug 21, 2019 16:15:16 GMT 12
Question for sp10 users... has anyone used a peripheral clamp with their sp10 ? i've been getting pissed off with warps and ripples on new vinyl lately and was contemplating the use of a peripheral clamp a la vpi et al. two big reasons against... they are best used with a centre weight or clamp. and cost... i've seen some for $500usd
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Post by Citroen on Aug 25, 2019 20:28:18 GMT 12
I think that Cooks used a peripheral clamp on his turntable but not many others do.
I'm guessing its Cost and lack of ease of use as to the reason why so few do.
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Post by michaelw on Aug 25, 2019 21:23:30 GMT 12
you're probably right.
any vpi users on dark lantern ?
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Post by Owen Y on Aug 26, 2019 6:55:52 GMT 12
Shame that vacuum hold-down didn’t become popular. Maybe it wouldn’t work on badly warped records.
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Post by michaelw on Dec 12, 2019 10:18:39 GMT 12
interesting section in the doco Vinylmania - when life runs at 33 revolutions per minute 2012. they visit the headquarters of the ELP company and listen to the famous laser turntable. analog reference in the listening room is a technics sp10 
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Member
Post by logic6 on Feb 2, 2020 12:05:37 GMT 12
Owen Y,
reference the Krebs Upgrade, after 15 years of research this mod aims to improve the SP-10. Have you seen and heard this upgrade? It seems to me that the Krebs Upgrade has not generated a lot of discussion for something this important. Has any of the many SP-10 gurus done something similar to the Krebs Upgrade? Your comments are appreciated.
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Post by Citroen on Feb 2, 2020 14:08:01 GMT 12
I believe MW has the Krebs upgrade.
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Post by Owen Y on Feb 2, 2020 20:45:16 GMT 12
Owen Y, reference the Krebs Upgrade, after 15 years of research this mod aims to improve the SP-10. Have you seen and heard this upgrade? It seems to me that the Krebs Upgrade has not generated a lot of discussion for something this important. Has any of the many SP-10 gurus done something similar to the Krebs Upgrade? Your comments are appreciated. Mr Krebs is an old pal & I have heard his music system regularly over the years. Unfortunately he suffered a minor fire in his listening room a year or so ago & was still in the process of rebuidling the system, when he last visited. Richard's TT was an SP-10 Mk3, 'heavily modified', as they say in audiophile circles - so his own SP-10 is very much non-stock. However, this may soon be supplanted by a 'from-the-ground-up', 'no-holds-barred' new TT design, which has been testing in prototype form for the last 18 months. (Re. this project, I don't have any further info to reveal at this stage.)
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Member
Post by logic6 on Feb 3, 2020 11:53:30 GMT 12
Owen Y,
I hope you are involved at least hearing for improvements with the testing of this prototype turntable. In 2021 I will be asking about this turntable. Maybe it will be done sometime in 2020. Anyway good luck with his turntable.
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Post by Owen Y on Feb 3, 2020 19:14:08 GMT 12
Will keep you posted if any publicly-sharable details come my way 
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Post by michaelw on Feb 3, 2020 20:33:45 GMT 12
I believe MW has the Krebs upgrade.
yes.
when i bought my sp10 it was the first mk2 richard had done and was prototypical, a work in progress.
before i received it, richard upgraded it to include the full mk2 mods.
it sounded fantastic !
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Post by Owen Y on Jun 23, 2020 17:28:05 GMT 12
My SP-10 MkII seems to be running perfectly well since firing it up 12 months ago, with no signs of electrical misbehaviour. However, with any electronics this old (1980 manufacture, 40 years), it needs at least a check-over. Most owners just rip in & renew all the electrolytic capacitors. No doubt, modern electrolytics are much better design & caps this old could usefully be renewed. But first, to take a look at the outboard 'SH-10E Power Unit': It's job is to rectify the mains AC & supply 3 x 'raw' DC lines (5V, 32.5V, 140V) to the 4 or so PCBs (motor drive, speed control & 'logic'), on board the TT chassis.   
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