Pundit
Post by papahemi on Dec 10, 2017 16:32:20 GMT 12
I like the vintage stuff, I am vintage myself, and my new old Lab 80 is only about 7 years younger then yours truely. Purchased for the princely sum of $100 off TM I took a punt, I like the looks and know that there are some gems in the Garrard whakapapa aside from the 301/401. My intention is to rehouse this in a more substantial plinth, doing away with the spring suspension. I do want to keep the lovely wooden tonearm despite the feeling that it may be difficult to set up a modern cartridge in it (it has a Stanton 780 currently). I have had it turning and it runs very slow (27 rpm at 33), cleaned the oil of the idler, the driving rim and the spindle and discovered while thinking to lube the main bearing that the ball-bearings have gone awol. Some pics with further explanation.  The Lab 80 as it arrived - a couple of stray washers, the larger derlin one may be related to the main bearing issue. A lot of the automatic mechanism has been removed. No biggy, saved me the trouble.  tiny image urlStyley logo.  Classy looking arm to these eyes  image cdn freePlaying weight dialled in at 2g  Stanton 780 cartridge - looks OK, interestingly recommended input into 100kΩ, phono 2 on my Sansui AU555 is conveniently 100kΩ - the gods are smiling.  No balls here! I understand that the required size is 3/32", a common size in bikes - I'm off to the bike shop tomorrow. There are other solutions to the bearing issue (teflon bearing have been discussed), but for the moment I will go with trying for a like replacement. I hope to get it up for trial play next weekend before thinking about replinthing. To do before then: Mount and solder tag strip for tonearm => RCA Replace bearings Thats All Any thoughts, input etc welcome and appreciated.
We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be.
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Pundit
Post by nakmad on Dec 10, 2017 19:12:03 GMT 12
Interesting cartridge there Papa.. a CD4 type from memory.. always liked my departed 681EEES.. wonder how that compares
Never play Leapfrog with a Unicorn.
Cassette Fetishist
219 posts
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Post by Owen Y on Dec 11, 2017 8:40:25 GMT 12
Solid diecast idler drive, with wood tonearm - should be a goodie.
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Post by colinf on Dec 11, 2017 15:21:22 GMT 12
Nice  It would be interesting to see if the speed returns to normal after refitting the ball bearings in the main bearing, indicating heaps of friction without them. If not, 27rpm equates to a turntable set for 60Hz operation. At 50Hz a US-market turntable would run at 27rpm.
AMR-iFi R&D
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Pundit
Post by papahemi on Dec 11, 2017 17:36:24 GMT 12
Nice It would be interesting to see if the speed returns to normal after refitting the ball bearings in the main bearing, indicating heaps of friction without them. If not, 27rpm equates to a turntable set for 60Hz operation. At 50Hz a US-market turntable would run at 27rpm. Definitely set up for 50hz, more than a fraction too much friction (and a lack of friction in the wrong places) is the issue. Had no luck sourcing bearings today, no luck also in finding a tag strip for tonearm wire termination. Thought I had some luck in finding a big 12v battery to address the noisey power supply to my T-amp, but that turned out to be bad luck when I completely fucked it up and got the polarity mixed up and blew it up. In the vein of Jon some music for this post:
We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be.
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Post by colinf on Dec 11, 2017 18:42:34 GMT 12
Oh bad luck man! T-amp....Tripath class T?
AMR-iFi R&D
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Pundit
Post by papahemi on Dec 11, 2017 21:49:03 GMT 12
Oh bad luck man! T-amp....Tripath class T? Yup, sad but true. Took it apart and a chunk off the chip has been blown off. AR A-04 now on tops duty.
We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be.
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Pundit
Post by papahemi on Dec 11, 2017 21:50:53 GMT 12
Interesting cartridge there Papa.. a CD4 type from memory.. always liked my departed 681EEES.. wonder how that compares Looking forward to hearing it myself, I think that the innards are different to 681 series.
We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be.
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Pundit
Post by papahemi on Dec 21, 2017 7:55:36 GMT 12
Finally got the Lab 80 up and playing. Sourced some ceramic 3/32" bearings from here www.nzminiaturebearings.co.nz/, after trying to bodge one up from a fidget spinner, managing to get the speed up to 31.8 rpm wit wild fluctuations. The new bearings fitted and the washer arrangement correct, speed was up to 33.6/7 within a turn and a half of the platter. I guess this is correct in playing accounting for stylus drag etc. I rationalised the terminals and get no hum without the earth lead - good. The headshell does not allow for much adjustment in terms of azimuth and the cartridge is not sitting quite right according to my Garrot Bros protractor, but close enough to give it a listen. I don't feel that the Stanton 780 is a good match for this arm, and something more in keeping with the 1964 vintage with conical stylus may be a better match - thinking a Shure M3D or like - any ideas? I will try the 780 on my SME III to hear what it can do (I wish I had a good microscope to check the stylus condition). In the meantime I will try a re-bodied AT95e on the Garrard arm. Also thinking about the re-plinthing. I need to deal to the springs, get rid off them that is and firmly couple the top plate to a more substantial plinth. I got rimu, I got slate...
We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be.
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Post by colinf on Dec 21, 2017 9:32:46 GMT 12
Glad you got the spindle bearings sorted. Is the tonearm level or is it higher at the rear near the counterweight than at the headshell? That could be why azimuth is out. I prefer wooden plinths myself. IME solid stone or slate can tend to sound hard. I had my 301 on a variety of plinths before my current solid macrocarpa one.
AMR-iFi R&D
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Pundit
Post by papahemi on Dec 22, 2017 17:34:14 GMT 12
I think that the Lab 80 may be possessed (a la Christine). So far she/it/he has accounted for a T-amp, a AT95e stylus, the wiring in a SME3 wand. It may be that I am just clumsy - believe what you want. I now have the rebodied AT95e on the Lab 80 -it sounds very good, so I have made some gains. I am now thinking about the plinth and how to secure the top plate to a plinth - Hmmm. I intend to follow the advice of wise colinf and use layers of ply so I can screw down into it, but there are no obvious screwing holes (not the right word) apart from the two transit screws with their springs underneath. Do I, should I drill some more???
We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be.
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Post by colinf on Dec 23, 2017 9:40:31 GMT 12
The springs look like they're screwed onto the chassis from underneath. So I'd possibly mount it to the plinth like a 401 which can only be secured from below. The springs on the '80 could be removed and long screws that go through the layers of ply on your plinth would hold it in place from the bottom. 
AMR-iFi R&D
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Pundit
Post by papahemi on Dec 24, 2017 16:32:23 GMT 12
Does anyone have a source for litz wire for tonearm? Not for this beauty (she is sounding better every day, XX - XX sounds particularly great with very deep bass passages coming through), but for the other arms I have managed to upset the cabling on.
We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be.
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Post by Owen Y on Dec 25, 2017 8:30:39 GMT 12
I haven't bought any for a while, but I've always sourced tonearm wire from Michael Percy (see p.2 of his catalogue 'Chassis wire'). (Only USD1.50 - 0.85 per ft, but min. USD25 order, I usually go for Cardas but Acrotec should be OK too.) www.percyaudio.com(PS. Let me know if you need to make up minimum order $$, I could share an order with some Cardas 33awg wire.)
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Pundit
Post by papahemi on Dec 25, 2017 10:00:41 GMT 12
I haven't bought any for a while, but I've always sourced tonearm wire from Michael Percy (see p.2 of his catalogue 'Chassis wire'). (Only USD1.50 - 0.85 per ft, but min. USD25 order, I usually go for Cardas but Acrotec should be OK too.) www.percyaudio.com(PS. Let me know if you need to make up minimum order $$, I could share an order with some Cardas 33awg wire.) Thanks Owen, I will order as much as is needed of the Cardas 33 awg to make up the minimum order. Then I will have spare on hand. MXaHNY
We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be.
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Post by Owen Y on Dec 25, 2017 16:50:09 GMT 12
You probably know this but I suggest that you get equal amounts of ea of the 4 colours Wh/Blu/Grn/R, otherwise it's confusing if all black colour. He does the cartridge clips also, if req'd. Check postage cost with him, for international orders.
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Post by Citroen on Dec 26, 2017 11:15:51 GMT 12
Easier to just buy the 4x33awg 
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Post by Owen Y on Dec 27, 2017 15:49:21 GMT 12
4 separate wires for inside tonearms. You can use shielded & sheathed as above for external phono cabling, but I prefer unshielded.
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Pundit
Post by papahemi on Dec 27, 2017 15:53:57 GMT 12
Me too - Just waiting for Percy to get back to me, he will be enjoying his chrissy break I guess. Meanwhile I am working on the template for the cutout - I have to redraw it as Vinylengine template is not to scale.
We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be.
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Pundit
Post by papahemi on Jan 3, 2018 17:18:30 GMT 12
Progress is being made and the Lab80, aka Christine, now sits in the unfinished plinth. ![]()  unlimited image hostingThis is a trial fit, and my template worked well. The plinth itself is made from three layers of ply with an oak veneer (Chinese, manufactured from sustainable materials. The pine most likely shipped out from Gisborne - and so it goes). Perhaps not considered the best in audiophile circles, but affordable ($69 for 600 x 2400 sheet from Bunnings). The layers are glued and screwed, and feet from a Mitchell Focus1 are attached via inserts.  Yet to be done: attach top plate to plinth IEC socket RCA out Sand sand sand Oil (linseed for this one, I await the discolouration) sand, oil, sand... Play Enjoy Start again  Sitting alongside the tuakana, looking good.
We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be.
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Post by Owen Y on Jan 4, 2018 9:17:44 GMT 12
papahemi - you'd better be indoors today, battening the hatches up North, no excuse for not progressing things  Or just listening.
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Pundit
Post by papahemi on Jan 4, 2018 9:27:34 GMT 12
I'm outdoors actually, sanding and filling in the voids. The rain is holding off mostly. Radio NZ for company.
We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be.
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Pundit
Post by papahemi on Jan 4, 2018 12:43:42 GMT 12
Damnation - got to the shed and no oil, had to make a trip to Bunnings and buy some Danish Oil, a better choice anyway, but that stuff is expensive. Could be up and running by the weekend.
We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be.
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Pundit
Post by papahemi on Jan 7, 2018 11:18:40 GMT 12
And so she is, welcome Christine.    I had a few issues in the test run that caused some concern, the Mitchell feet were too bouncy so were replaced with brass feet. She now sits solidly on the shelf and seems to be immune to footfall. Putting her into the system I lost one channel, checked all connections and interconnects - all OK. Tracked issue to amp driving my Corals, weirdly solved by switching mono switch in and out. I recall this happening before with my Rait 60-60 - I suspect dodgy connection somewhere. One job ends, another starts.
We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be.
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Pundit
Post by Gryffles on Jan 7, 2018 12:57:26 GMT 12
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Pundit
Post by papahemi on Jan 7, 2018 14:30:04 GMT 12
hanks for that Gryffles, Micheal Percy has not got back to me so this may be a better option.
We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be.
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Pundit
Post by papahemi on Jan 17, 2018 16:07:15 GMT 12
Any hints for TT lid fabrication? I have 3mm perspex and Weldon 16. My bending trials have been partially successful but using the glue is difficult. The problem is getting a bead that does not run over the edging with these shaky hands.
We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be.
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Member
Post by Ant. on Jan 20, 2018 7:47:01 GMT 12
Looking good papahemi!!!!
Valve & Idler nut!
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Member
Post by hurdygurdyman on May 25, 2018 14:58:13 GMT 12
Any updates on this? I'd like to know how the Lab 80 performs in it's new plinth. I may end up building one for mine.
Dave
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Pundit
Post by papahemi on May 25, 2018 18:29:06 GMT 12
Yup - all up and running - sounds good too, as long as you don't get your ear too close as there is a bit of rumble. I put this down to the thrust bearing assembly and I am considering a replacement set up with needle rollers - but it is not a priority as I only hear it in close proximity to the TT. I have disengaged all auto functions and cue manually as I do on all my TTs. The plinth construction was the easiest part. The lid was difficult and the result flawed but functional. I will post a finished pic tomorrow when the light is better.
We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be.
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