Post by Owen Y on Jul 7, 2019 17:47:55 GMT 12
That's the Loading side of the equation considered. That other consideration is whether a 1:10 ratio SUT will be enough to get the 103R's output (0.25-0.30 mV?) up to MM-level? 10x (0.25-0.30) => 2.5-3.0mV - which is at the lowish end of MM volts. Is that enough for your amp/s & l'spkrs?
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Post by sub on Jul 8, 2019 9:21:15 GMT 12
My Kef 104/2 spkrs have 92dB sensitivity, and I only need my Plinius 8150 volume control at about 9 o’clock for satisfying volume using my Ortofon 2M Black. At about 9.30 things go very loud and I start hearing extraneous noise off the LP.
I suspect I would need to go to that level or higher with the 1:10, in which case there could be a problem with extraneous noise. I think I will pass.
I’m actually very happy with the sound quality of the 103R via the MC only phono input on my 8150. I haven’t used that input since changing to the 2M Black about April/May last year, but when hooking it up recently found the R channel is out of action. To have it repaired would mean no music for a minimum of 2-3 weeks, plus the inconvenience of having to courier to a reputable service centre.
I suspect the R op amp, as that had to be replaced when I bought the amp about 2 years ago. There must be a thermal issue in regard to where the R op amp is situated.
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Post by Owen Y on Jul 8, 2019 9:28:44 GMT 12
You have swapped phono input plugs L-to-R on the back of the Plinius, in order to check that the problem isn't upstream?
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Post by sub on Jul 8, 2019 9:57:05 GMT 12
You have swapped phono input plugs L-to-R on the back of the Plinius, in order to check that the problem isn't upstream? Thanks, yes did the usual checks, including as you suggest. What I hope to achieve in the long term, is to use the 103R on my Yamaha YP-D9 TT, keeping the 2M Black set up on my LP12. I believe the spherical stylus on the Denon will give better playback on the largish number of Dynagroove LPs that I own. I’m currently renovating my shed, and buried deep in the back, unreachable just now, is an old Denon 3806 HT receiver. Maybe I will wait until I can get that set up so I can get the 8150 repaired.
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Post by michaelw on Jul 8, 2019 12:18:49 GMT 12
My Kef 104/2 spkrs have 92dB sensitivity, and I only need my Plinius 8150 volume control at about 9 o’clock for satisfying volume using my Ortofon 2M Black. At about 9.30 things go very loud and I start hearing extraneous noise off the LP.
the cramped operating range was characteristic of the volume pots plinius used at the time.
analogous to the short travel throttle response of a japanese sports car compared to the relatively long travel of a european throttle.
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Pundit
Post by SL1210 on Jul 8, 2019 15:11:53 GMT 12
I’ve been keeping an eye out for an affordable SUT to use with my Denon DL103R, Affordable being an important part of the equation! The 103R output is .25mv, thus if I understand the above discussion, I need a sut with ratio at least 1:20, which will give a boost to 5mv, although have read elsewhere that a ratio of 1:40 would be better. They don’t come up on T:M very often, but there is a Silvercore 1:10 currently listed, and at $500 is right at the top of my budget. Reading up on the Silvercore I find recommendations for using it with the 103R, even though the boost would be to only 2.5mv The Silvercore seems to be well regarded, but would it work with my Pure Audio Vinyl - which is a preproduction Model for MM only, although all the jumper switches for changing input values are operative? Any recommendations? Hi sub - Denon specify for the 103R either '100 ohms min.' or '40 ohms when using a transformer'. (An aside - traditionally the Japanese specify SUTs by the cartridge coil impedance - so the above '40 ohms' means that a SUT that is suitable for a cartridge with 40 ohms coil imped. - which is around 17dB or 1:7 - which (if you do the voltage ratio-squared sums) gives a cartridge load of around 1000 ohms, when connected to a 47k preamp.) Scanning quickly some forums, it seems that 103R owners are using anything from 50 ohms - 1000 ohms to load their 103Rs. So, given Denon's recommendation above, & the 14 ohms cartr coil imped., I would start with 10-15x the latter, ie. 150-200 ohms up to 1000 ohms. (Doing the ratio-squared sums again) this means a SUT of between 1:18 to 1:7 ratio. So, a Silvercore 1:10 should work, loading-wise. (Long explanation sorry.) You are truly a master of the Dark Arts. (Note to self: when needing SUT advice - just ask Owen).
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Pundit
Post by beeman on Jul 9, 2019 8:54:45 GMT 12
I have used a Cinemag Bobs Devices SUT for Denon 103R for years & it works great. Give me a PM Graham as mine is available if your interested. The current Tamura TS351 are even nicer though & well worth the investment if you find some.
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Pundit
Post by Gryffles on Sept 5, 2022 0:29:57 GMT 12
So tell me what SUT's you folks are using with which cart please? Past or present.....
I'm interested to hear of any really good ones that don't cost a fortune!!
I'v e been listening to the Sculpture A Mini Nano 1:20 with a Benz Ebony L and also have a Denon AU320 which is nice but not at the Sculpture A level
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Pundit
Post by Neil on Sept 5, 2022 8:22:05 GMT 12
Auditorium 23 Hommage T2, Silvercore One to Ten, Grace GS-10, a Bob's Devices thing, an old Dynavector thing, the internal SUTs in my preamp. But usually just the A23 is in the system.
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Pundit
Post by Dom on Sept 6, 2022 9:19:46 GMT 12
The Sculpture A stuff looks gorgeous, my brother was interested in one for a while. I am interested as I'm currently using a low-output SPU. Right now it's going into a Graham Slee Reflex C phono stage, then my preamp. Niiice. I also have a Reflex M and a 'venerable' in-line Audio-Technica 630 SUT, sitting unused. (I'm aware it may not be the finest SUT ever created but it is an A-T.) So, I'm curious if it's a no-brainer to re-route the SPU through the MM/SUT instead of the MC stage. And should I change that SPU to my HANA ML, would you answer the same? Try it and see, you all say! However, it's quite a schlep get round the back and re-route things, hence my Q before I go in.
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