Folks,
I need some enabling here…

or better yet a dope slap.

I have the chance to buy an SP10r that is nearly new for an ok price.  Three months ago I would have jumped on it.  A few weeks ago, however, I decided to live with my DIY Lenco and take my turntable funds and apply them toward the Taiko Extreme server.  Now a ‘table is available that pretty much exactly matches what I would have ordered.

My dilemma, besides the money, is that after hearing the Extreme I’d decided that it would take A LOT more money to get my analog rig to the level of the Extreme.  I know Technics SP10s are popular here.  My question for you is how much better will the Technics sound than my Lenco, which sounds darned good?

How’s that for an impossible question to answer?  Seriously, those of you that have heard a top idler, do the Technics DDs sound that much better?

Thanks,
Evan

Custom Lenco, Terminator tone arm, SoundSmith Hyperion, Pioneer PL70 tone arm, Miyajima Zero
Wavestream Kinetics phono stage
Aurender S10, Holo Audio May KTE DAC, Parasound JC2 preamp
AtmaSphere MA-1 amps
Benchmark AHBP amps
Sound Lab Majestic 745 speakers
Two Rythmik 12SE subs, DIY dual 10” sub with MiniDSP 550W amp
AV Room Service EVPs under speakers and subs

Is it just the SP10R motor unit or the complete motor/plinth/arm package ?

I've heard a few stock idlers -Lenco, Garrard, Dual etc and it would be an SP10 every time.

If you have the money, get the SP10R

Personal taste, impossible question to answer!

From my limited experience with the SP10, I found it very neutral. My 401 may not be as accurate but I preferred it.

But then I prefer belt drives even more...

Jun 6, 2022 14:57:13 GMT 12 michaelw said:

Is it just the SP10R motor unit or the complete motor/plinth/arm package ?

I've heard a few stock idlers -Lenco, Garrard, Dual etc and it would be an SP10 every time.

If you have the money, get the SP10R

The Technics turntable is a complete package with 3 arm boards and aftermarket plinth.  

My Lenco is definitely not stock.  Besides the CLD plinth, it has an aftermarket bearing assembly, including as I recall a sapphire or tungsten carbide ball bearing and PEEK bearing thrust plate as well as an aftermarket idler wheel and judicious damping.  That said I’m sure the speed control and rumble would be better on the Technics.  I just don’t know if the rest of the chain (Wavestream phono stage) wouldn’t need to be upgraded and I can’t afford yet another rabbit hole at this time.

Custom Lenco, Terminator tone arm, SoundSmith Hyperion, Pioneer PL70 tone arm, Miyajima Zero
Wavestream Kinetics phono stage
Aurender S10, Holo Audio May KTE DAC, Parasound JC2 preamp
AtmaSphere MA-1 amps
Benchmark AHBP amps
Sound Lab Majestic 745 speakers
Two Rythmik 12SE subs, DIY dual 10” sub with MiniDSP 550W amp
AV Room Service EVPs under speakers and subs

Jun 6, 2022 15:37:15 GMT 12 Citroen said:

Personal taste, impossible question to answer!

From my limited experience with the SP10, I found it very neutral. My 401 may not be as accurate but I preferred it.

But then I prefer belt drives even more...

Thanks.  I’m still waiting to get dimensions of the plinth with arm boards.  There’s a good chance I won’t be able to fit it and the Extreme on the top shelf of my rack, which will make the decision easy.  

I do like my Lenco.  The reason I started thinking about upgrading a few months ago was some pitch instability on a record.  I’ve since realized it was a recording issue, not the ‘table.

Custom Lenco, Terminator tone arm, SoundSmith Hyperion, Pioneer PL70 tone arm, Miyajima Zero
Wavestream Kinetics phono stage
Aurender S10, Holo Audio May KTE DAC, Parasound JC2 preamp
AtmaSphere MA-1 amps
Benchmark AHBP amps
Sound Lab Majestic 745 speakers
Two Rythmik 12SE subs, DIY dual 10” sub with MiniDSP 550W amp
AV Room Service EVPs under speakers and subs

If it's working properly, an SP10 will be perfectly stable

The plinth can make or break it, I prefer solid slab of wood types and would avoid anything box-like constructs.

It’s an acoustand plinth.  They seem to have a decent reputation.  Seems very similar to the Technics SL1000 except it takes up to three arms (I need two).  

Custom Lenco, Terminator tone arm, SoundSmith Hyperion, Pioneer PL70 tone arm, Miyajima Zero
Wavestream Kinetics phono stage
Aurender S10, Holo Audio May KTE DAC, Parasound JC2 preamp
AtmaSphere MA-1 amps
Benchmark AHBP amps
Sound Lab Majestic 745 speakers
Two Rythmik 12SE subs, DIY dual 10” sub with MiniDSP 550W amp
AV Room Service EVPs under speakers and subs

I'd say stick with the Lenco, but then I'm biased! It's also way more tweakable than the SP10.

The real question is what percentage of vinyl do you play compared to the whole? If it's low stick with what you have. If it's high then upgrade or replace.

Whichever direction you go, the best of luck.

Thanks for your inputs. I decided not to upgrade. I am interested in hearing a SP10 in my system, with my tonearms, and cartridges.

Custom Lenco, Terminator tone arm, SoundSmith Hyperion, Pioneer PL70 tone arm, Miyajima Zero
Wavestream Kinetics phono stage
Aurender S10, Holo Audio May KTE DAC, Parasound JC2 preamp
AtmaSphere MA-1 amps
Benchmark AHBP amps
Sound Lab Majestic 745 speakers
Two Rythmik 12SE subs, DIY dual 10” sub with MiniDSP 550W amp
AV Room Service EVPs under speakers and subs

Yeah, well I lied. Not exactly lied, but as the saying goes the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Not sure what that has to do with this particular situation, but I am back to considering the SP10r. I intended to not spend the money, but I seem to be obsessing over that near-perfect speed stability.

Will keep y’all posted as this battle for dark and light continues.

Custom Lenco, Terminator tone arm, SoundSmith Hyperion, Pioneer PL70 tone arm, Miyajima Zero
Wavestream Kinetics phono stage
Aurender S10, Holo Audio May KTE DAC, Parasound JC2 preamp
AtmaSphere MA-1 amps
Benchmark AHBP amps
Sound Lab Majestic 745 speakers
Two Rythmik 12SE subs, DIY dual 10” sub with MiniDSP 550W amp
AV Room Service EVPs under speakers and subs

Haha

Do you have a local dealer that will allow you to try before you buy ?

Speed stability is not the only strength of the SP10 - low noise, dynamics, build quality ...

If you can afford it then go for it, and sell the one that loses out.

Jun 9, 2022 15:29:59 GMT 12 michaelw said:

Haha

Do you have a local dealer that will allow you to try before you buy ?

Speed stability is not the only strength of the SP10 - low noise, dynamics, build quality ...

Not only is this NOT local, I am buying it sight unseen.  One of the reasons I’m vacillating.  It’s not a huge risk, but risk is not zero.

Custom Lenco, Terminator tone arm, SoundSmith Hyperion, Pioneer PL70 tone arm, Miyajima Zero
Wavestream Kinetics phono stage
Aurender S10, Holo Audio May KTE DAC, Parasound JC2 preamp
AtmaSphere MA-1 amps
Benchmark AHBP amps
Sound Lab Majestic 745 speakers
Two Rythmik 12SE subs, DIY dual 10” sub with MiniDSP 550W amp
AV Room Service EVPs under speakers and subs

Jun 9, 2022 16:07:57 GMT 12 Citroen said:

If you can afford it then go for it, and sell the one that loses out.

Afford is a relative term.  As retirement approaches the calculus is “how many more months do I need to work to recover from this expenditure?”  Especially an issue given the lousy market returns this year.

Custom Lenco, Terminator tone arm, SoundSmith Hyperion, Pioneer PL70 tone arm, Miyajima Zero
Wavestream Kinetics phono stage
Aurender S10, Holo Audio May KTE DAC, Parasound JC2 preamp
AtmaSphere MA-1 amps
Benchmark AHBP amps
Sound Lab Majestic 745 speakers
Two Rythmik 12SE subs, DIY dual 10” sub with MiniDSP 550W amp
AV Room Service EVPs under speakers and subs

Retail value of either turntable should be reasonable though

How long is the umbilical between the power supply and the SP10 turntable? Where does the umbilical connect to the motor?

Custom Lenco, Terminator tone arm, SoundSmith Hyperion, Pioneer PL70 tone arm, Miyajima Zero
Wavestream Kinetics phono stage
Aurender S10, Holo Audio May KTE DAC, Parasound JC2 preamp
AtmaSphere MA-1 amps
Benchmark AHBP amps
Sound Lab Majestic 745 speakers
Two Rythmik 12SE subs, DIY dual 10” sub with MiniDSP 550W amp
AV Room Service EVPs under speakers and subs

No idea, my SP10 is the much older Mk2.

The umbilical is about 1m, permanently attached at the motor end with a DIN style plug to the power supply.

The SP10R may well be different as the separate box has control functions as well as power supply.

The user manual is available for download

av.jpn.support.panasonic.com/support/technics/downloads/

Jun 10, 2022 11:14:50 GMT 12 michaelw said:

No idea, my SP10 is the much older Mk2.

The umbilical is about 1m, permanently attached at the motor end with a DIN style plug to the power supply.

The SP10R may well be different as the separate box has control functions as well as power supply.

The user manual is available for download

av.jpn.support.panasonic.com/support/technics/downloads/

Thanks.  I looked in the manual already.  About the only useful info on this I’ve gotten is from photos, which seem to indicate 1-2m which is enough for me to remote the power supply.  Fingers crossed.

Custom Lenco, Terminator tone arm, SoundSmith Hyperion, Pioneer PL70 tone arm, Miyajima Zero
Wavestream Kinetics phono stage
Aurender S10, Holo Audio May KTE DAC, Parasound JC2 preamp
AtmaSphere MA-1 amps
Benchmark AHBP amps
Sound Lab Majestic 745 speakers
Two Rythmik 12SE subs, DIY dual 10” sub with MiniDSP 550W amp
AV Room Service EVPs under speakers and subs

Not too far away if you want to use the pitch control, set motor torque etc.

Jun 10, 2022 14:27:03 GMT 12 michaelw said:

Not too far away if you want to use the pitch control, set motor torque etc.

Just on the floor beneath my rack.

Custom Lenco, Terminator tone arm, SoundSmith Hyperion, Pioneer PL70 tone arm, Miyajima Zero
Wavestream Kinetics phono stage
Aurender S10, Holo Audio May KTE DAC, Parasound JC2 preamp
AtmaSphere MA-1 amps
Benchmark AHBP amps
Sound Lab Majestic 745 speakers
Two Rythmik 12SE subs, DIY dual 10” sub with MiniDSP 550W amp
AV Room Service EVPs under speakers and subs

Jun 10, 2022 16:17:16 GMT 12 achipo said:

Jun 10, 2022 14:27:03 GMT 12 michaelw said:

Not too far away if you want to use the pitch control, set motor torque etc.

Just on the floor beneath my rack.

Your previous estimate 1m - 2m from photos is a pretty wide range!

Would even 2m get to the floor and in?

If ~ 1m, perhaps construct an outrigger extension to the rack, maybe even with a block level with and as thick as the existing TT shelf?

Or below. Or shuffle things around. If it's really just ~1m, what would you be able to do?

Somehow? ;=})

Looking at earlier posts, my few thoughts were:

The Technics is a singular item that may become more rare.

Excellent DACs already may become better and cheaper.

Does the seller give a reason for sale? (maybe needs money) and good photos, description, feedback &or etc.? Seems trustworthy?

Cheers!

Jun 10, 2022 21:40:02 GMT 12 RdM said:

Jun 10, 2022 16:17:16 GMT 12 achipo said:

Just on the floor beneath my rack.

Your previous estimate 1m - 2m from photos is a pretty wide range!

Would even 2m get to the floor and in?

If ~ 1m, perhaps construct an outrigger extension to the rack, maybe even with a block level with and as thick as the existing TT shelf?

Or below. Or shuffle things around. If it's really just ~1m, what would you be able to do?

Somehow? ;=})

Looking at earlier posts, my few thoughts were:

The Technics is a singular item that may become more rare.

Excellent DACs already may become better and cheaper.

Does the seller give a reason for sale? (maybe needs money) and good photos, description, feedback &or etc.? Seems trustworthy?

Cheers!

My rack top shelf where the turntable will sit is 30” high.  The rack is in a closet, so space is constrained.  Ideally the umbilical between the power supply and ‘table will be at least 1m long so I can place the power supply on the floor.  If the umbilical is shorter I can put it on a lower shelf, but those are pretty full already.


I’ve vetted the seller and situation.  I’ve also grappled with the finance.  At this point as long as there is no extreme duties or shipping expense I’m in.




The Taiko will go where my Lenco is, and the Technics will go where my Wavestream phono amp is.  The Wavestream will move to the shelf below replacing the Aurender.  Ideally the Technics power supply will sit on the left side of the rack on the floor.

Custom Lenco, Terminator tone arm, SoundSmith Hyperion, Pioneer PL70 tone arm, Miyajima Zero
Wavestream Kinetics phono stage
Aurender S10, Holo Audio May KTE DAC, Parasound JC2 preamp
AtmaSphere MA-1 amps
Benchmark AHBP amps
Sound Lab Majestic 745 speakers
Two Rythmik 12SE subs, DIY dual 10” sub with MiniDSP 550W amp
AV Room Service EVPs under speakers and subs

Looks like shipping and duty is a deal killer. Kinda bummed, but knew it was a longshot going in. Meanwhile I’m getting my phono stage worked on again. Hopefully he can eliminate the LF warbling I hear, because otherwise I love the phono stage.

Custom Lenco, Terminator tone arm, SoundSmith Hyperion, Pioneer PL70 tone arm, Miyajima Zero
Wavestream Kinetics phono stage
Aurender S10, Holo Audio May KTE DAC, Parasound JC2 preamp
AtmaSphere MA-1 amps
Benchmark AHBP amps
Sound Lab Majestic 745 speakers
Two Rythmik 12SE subs, DIY dual 10” sub with MiniDSP 550W amp
AV Room Service EVPs under speakers and subs

From where to you?

Just sussing out if I can guzzump you with a bid from downunder!

Jun 11, 2022 18:51:16 GMT 12 achipo said:

Looks like shipping and duty is a deal killer. Kinda bummed, but knew it was a longshot going in.

Now that it's all over, maybe you can show us the original advert link?

Just for fun, viewing, imagining ourselves in your look at it ;-)

But thanks for the pics of your set-up!

Rather small. Here's how I think they might have been better presented:

(I'm going to have a word with the admins about existing advice in coming days, or daze, still slight concussion headache, wine a relief;-)

Cheers! @

Best regards,

Ross

Jun 11, 2022 19:28:11 GMT 12 RdM said:

Jun 11, 2022 18:51:16 GMT 12 achipo said:

Looks like shipping and duty is a deal killer. Kinda bummed, but knew it was a longshot going in.

Now that it's all over, maybe you can show us the original advert link?

Just for fun, viewing, imagining ourselves in your look at it ;-)

But thanks for the pics of your set-up!

Rather small. Here's how I think they might have been better presented:

(I'm going to have a word with the admins about existing advice in coming days, or daze, still slight concussion headache, wine a relief;-)

Cheers! @

 

Best regards,

Ross

Feel free to pm me,  Michael and jerm about your concerns, advice re images

(Admin hat on)

The small thumbnails can be avoided by using one of imgbb's direct links

Thanks for fixing my pics RdM! michaelw I will try to figure out what you mean by Imgur bb direct links.

It seems I spoke too quickly. The seller and I were able to reach terms, and the turntable is heading my way after all.

Will share pics when it’s safely here and installed.

Custom Lenco, Terminator tone arm, SoundSmith Hyperion, Pioneer PL70 tone arm, Miyajima Zero
Wavestream Kinetics phono stage
Aurender S10, Holo Audio May KTE DAC, Parasound JC2 preamp
AtmaSphere MA-1 amps
Benchmark AHBP amps
Sound Lab Majestic 745 speakers
Two Rythmik 12SE subs, DIY dual 10” sub with MiniDSP 550W amp
AV Room Service EVPs under speakers and subs

On the imgBB page, below your picture is a a choice of links to use online, direct link, fullsize image or thumbnail.

For big pix here use the full image BBcode.

For this forum I prefer Imgur for photos, it's easier to use than BB and allows a quick and easy resize, the 15in monitor resize is just right for forums,

Jun 12, 2022 10:41:03 GMT 12 michaelw said:

On the imgBB page, below your picture is a a choice of links to use online, direct link, fullsize image or thumbnail.

For big pix here use the full image BBcode.

For this forum I prefer Imgur for photos, it's easier to use than BB and allows a quick and easy resize, the 15in monitor resize is just right for forums,

michaelw does that mean I need to upload the photo to a hosting site like imgur?  I just uploaded from my computer to this site--guess that's why there are small.

Custom Lenco, Terminator tone arm, SoundSmith Hyperion, Pioneer PL70 tone arm, Miyajima Zero
Wavestream Kinetics phono stage
Aurender S10, Holo Audio May KTE DAC, Parasound JC2 preamp
AtmaSphere MA-1 amps
Benchmark AHBP amps
Sound Lab Majestic 745 speakers
Two Rythmik 12SE subs, DIY dual 10” sub with MiniDSP 550W amp
AV Room Service EVPs under speakers and subs