Pundit
Post by harvey on Oct 7, 2021 19:11:25 GMT 12
Do we have many people using test records for cartridge set up?
They would seem a good investment but up until now I've never given it too much thought.
Are any available locally? I'm sure I found one a few weeks back but buggered if I can find it now.
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Post by RdM on Oct 7, 2021 19:22:11 GMT 12
I have one somewhere around here, can't find it right now, but bought secondhand. So what if the extreme track-ability tracks have been already ruined by a previous owner with a worn stylus? I didn't place too much credence in it, having checked mine under a microscope.
There were quite a few put out, I think. I'll post a pic when I can find mine. ;-) Might be interesting to compare contrast and discuss.
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Post by Citroen on Oct 8, 2021 11:54:05 GMT 12
HiFi News Analogue Test Lp comes in handy every now and then, to test basics such as Left and Right and phase.
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Post by michaelw on Oct 8, 2021 18:13:16 GMT 12
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Test Records Oct 8, 2021 19:38:11 GMT 12
- Edited Oct 8, 2021 19:40:04 GMT 12 by RdM
Post by RdM on Oct 8, 2021 19:38:11 GMT 12
HiFi News Analogue Test Lp comes in handy every now and then, to test basics such as Left and Right and phase.
I don't think I've ever needed a record to tell me left and right, and have seemed from an early age to sense out of phase, so obvious.
Yet in the late 80's-early 90's when I was working at a film library in Gillies Ave, I recall walking into a hifi store nearby, it's still there under a different name, cnr Kent &, Crowhurst Street, Newmarket, Auckland, I'd have been almost 40 or thereabouts, a couple of young 20 something sales assistants, some music playing on their latest fave demo speakers, which within seconds I thought out of phase. I mentioned it, convinced them to change a speaker lead around, and they were astonished! They had had no idea that it was wrong.
At the time in a separate room they had also a traveling demo pair of the B&W Nautilus. I didn't get to hear those though. Might have been nice. I think I was just on my lunch break.
I can't seem to find the only 'proper' test record I was sure I had.
I also can't find the double Weather Report 8:30 LP, or the two copies of their Heavy Weather that I know I should have. Astonishing, despite repeated searches. I find it hard to believe that there's still an unpacked box of LPs. But I do have unpacked boxes, albeit labelled. The search must go on! ;-)
I haven't counted the LP collection, and I'm sure it's small compared to many, but there are a few metres of shelves, for sure. It's annoying not being able to find stuff one was sure one had, though! ;=})
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Pundit
Post by harvey on Oct 16, 2021 8:31:57 GMT 12
Thanks for your replies gents.
So it seems these are more of a nice to have as opposed a must have for cartridge setup?
I asked about these as I've recently dusted of my Shelter 501 and have had trouble dialing it in. Excessive sibilance and sounding like the tip is dirty, not all the time, the later mostly on inner tracks. But now I think it may be past it's used buy date.
My wife has a jewelers loupe somewhere but can't find it, not sure if know what to look for anyway. So the next question is, does anyone know where I can can get the tip examined in Auckland. Might get my Delos looked at too, it's got aprox the same hours on it but still sounds fine.
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Post by sub on Oct 16, 2021 9:10:23 GMT 12
Years ago, the good folk at Absolute Sound put mine under their microscope. They are now called. The HiFi Store and are on the North Shore. You can only ask, they may charge a fee today, but back then it was free!
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Pundit
Post by harvey on Oct 16, 2021 12:42:44 GMT 12
Thanks Sub, have sent them an email.
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Post by Citroen on Oct 16, 2021 15:18:17 GMT 12
Turned On Audio or Shore HiFi? Used to be a free service.
Have Shore HiFi been swallowed up by Real Music Company? As the Shore HiFi site is no longer accessible and it looks like their relocated site on Lake Road is now Real Music store. Does John Vivian still work there?
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Post by Citroen on Oct 16, 2021 15:27:50 GMT 12
Thanks for your replies gents. So it seems these are more of a nice to have as opposed a must have for cartridge setup? I asked about these as I've recently dusted of my Shelter 501 and have had trouble dialing it in. Excessive sibilance and sounding like the tip is dirty, not all the time, the later mostly on inner tracks. But now I think it may be past it's used buy date. My wife has a jewelers loupe somewhere but can't find it, not sure if know what to look for anyway. So the next question is, does anyone know where I can can get the tip examined in Auckland. Might get my Delos looked at too, it's got aprox the same hours on it but still sounds fine. Don't write off the cart yet harveyWhat you are describing does sound like inner groove distortion. Do you have a cartridge alignment tool of any sort? If so, are you aligning it to Baerwald or Stevenson or other? Stevenson is best for the inner grooves but overall distortion not so good, depending on how far in your grooves are.
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Post by michaelw on Oct 16, 2021 17:48:06 GMT 12
Turned On Audio or Shore HiFi? Used to be a free service. Have Shore HiFi been swallowed up by Real Music Company? As the Shore HiFi site is no longer accessible and it looks like their relocated site on Lake Road is now Real Music store. Does John Vivian still work there? Yep !
They also took over and re-branded stores in Nelson (Living Sound) and Christchurch (PureHiFi).
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Pundit
Post by harvey on Oct 16, 2021 20:08:24 GMT 12
Ok, that makes sense. Mounted on a Wand arm which has its own arc alignment tool. I double checked with my protractor and it was spot on. TBH I didn't know which one it was set up for but with a bit of research null points at 66 & 121mm suggest Baerwald? I'll faff around a bit more but will leave it until tomorrow, the bar was open early in our house today. Listening to ones and zeros tonight. I may still get both carts looked at, would be good to get a state of health check I guess.
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Post by Citroen on Oct 16, 2021 20:43:52 GMT 12
Yes that sounds like Baerwald (which is what I mostly use). Stevenson is about 60 and 117? so set for a closer to spindle null point.
Generally I would've thought that the The Delos with its finer stylus profile would handle IGD better than the elliptical 501 if they are both set up correctly.
Get them both checked if you can. A jeweller's loupe will be about 10x to 30x magnification so only good to tell you major wear problems/if its dirty. A stereo microscope with at least 200x is what you really need, attached to someone who knows what profile the stylus should look like.
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Pundit
Post by harvey on Oct 17, 2021 21:31:40 GMT 12
Ok, quiet day at at work so I printed and laminated a Stevenson alignment guage. Inner groove alignment was out though not by much and we seem to have fixed this, thanks Citroen.
Sibilance is marginally better but still an issue although at this stage just the one album, which of course was one of the ones I was using for set up. I have two 'audiophile' pressings of Eva Cassidy Songbird and the issue exhibits the same. I've read it could be a cartridge arm compliance issue but I have a 2gm shim on which should put it in the happy zone. I'll mess around with this a little but I guess it's possible the Shelter just doesn't like that album?
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Post by michaelw on Oct 17, 2021 21:45:18 GMT 12
My Shelter never liked Cassidy either
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Post by Citroen on Oct 17, 2021 21:53:21 GMT 12
I have the S&P Steve Hoffman mastered Songbird from 2003, and yes it is more sibilant than others. Here's what Steve has to say about his mastering "All the DCC albums (in fact every album I've ever worked on) were and are cut with Big Boy School carts in mind. I don't shave off top end or compress the music to make it easier to track the record. Mistracking occurs because some carts are not up to tracking the complex groove. In that case it is time to change carts. The ones with the best trackability are number one in my book. Everything starts with that; if your cart cannot track correctly who cares what it sounds like? It will wear away your expensive records and you will be left with a permanent mistracking album. End of doom and gloom post. "
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Post by michaelw on Oct 17, 2021 22:11:44 GMT 12
Time to dust off that NOS V15, those things could track a pizza - thin crust, though crank up the tracking force and it could probably plow through a deep dish too.
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Pundit
Post by harvey on Oct 18, 2021 8:10:10 GMT 12
Ok that is interesting. Just as well I know now, I would have done my head in trying to sort this out. The Shelter is a real PIA to mount on the Wand, especially with a shim in the middle.
I guess I'll be playing this with the Lyra, just as well I've decided to keep both turntables. 🙂
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Post by Citroen on Oct 18, 2021 14:29:24 GMT 12
Ah, I imagine that it could be quite tricky to mount a shim on the Wand. You can never have too many turntables
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Post by Citroen on Oct 18, 2021 16:58:53 GMT 12
harvey remind me which two you have, Sp10 and Gyro?
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Pundit
Post by harvey on Oct 18, 2021 21:36:22 GMT 12
And no theaded inserts on the Shelter. You get to fit a 2.5mm nut and bolt while keeping the cart, shim and arm in place!
Yep, SP10 and Gyro SE.
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Post by michaelw on Oct 18, 2021 21:52:56 GMT 12
No threads and open sides like a Denon 103 - hours of fun
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Post by rmc001 on Oct 21, 2021 10:42:26 GMT 12
I have one cd track of Eva Cassidy - Songbird - and currently treble in my system runs a little recessed if anything - but definitely there is an 'ess-ss' there - not exactly sibilance but if you had a forward treble if could be noticeable :->. Apart from that I felt the singer is unnaturally lacking a centre image and the other instruments maybe unnaturally shrunken.? Not that my system is great. Cheers.
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Pundit
Post by harvey on Oct 21, 2021 21:06:41 GMT 12
So doing a bit of research I found some opinion that low compliance cartridges can be problematic with unipivot arms (to be fair, as with most things online I also found plenty of people saying it shouldn't matter). To my simple mind more effective mass from the arm would make sense in giving a low compliance cartridge more stability.
On with a heavier shim then. Mounting the cartridge went a bit more smoothly this time, practice makes perfect I guess.
Eva still has some sibilance but it is better and to a point were its acceptable. There is an overall improvement I wasn't expecting. The Shelter is singing along nicely now. It does sound like there is more weight and depth to the music. I don't know why as I usually trust my ears but I'm a little suspicious I'm hearing this because my brain is telling its what I should be hearing?
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Post by Citroen on Oct 22, 2021 9:28:44 GMT 12
Does it really matter if your perception of reality is not absolute reality and it "sounds" better to you now?
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Pundit
Post by harvey on Oct 27, 2021 12:37:10 GMT 12
Just got back from Real Hifi, John has checked both cartridges under the microscope and determined both to be in good condition. The Shelter is in slightly better nick than the Lyra, showing signs of wear but worn evenly on both sides.
I did however enquire last week about a factory retip which is not available any more but they've offered me a good deal on a new MKIII almost too good to refuse.
I'd need to sell the MKII so the question is, what is it worth? The suspension on it is fine. It's got aprox 1000 hours on it. Was US$8-900 new.
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Post by Citroen on Oct 27, 2021 13:02:16 GMT 12
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Pundit
Post by harvey on Oct 27, 2021 14:39:08 GMT 12
Cheers, I went through the Australian Shelter distributor and they've told me I can have a MKlll for what would've been the cost to retip the MKll, AU $990 plus shipping from Japan.
Trouble is, as well as a new TT mat I've also got a new DAC on the way and I agreed with the CFO to no more hifi spending after that. I'd be ok rolling the dice with $1 reserve but I'm really going to need a strong financial proposal. 🙂
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Post by Citroen on Oct 27, 2021 14:53:39 GMT 12
That's a great price!
I suggest you do whatever you need to to get it. Including bribery, blackmail, with-holding certain marital obligations...
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Post by andrewp on Oct 27, 2021 16:10:34 GMT 12
Did you mean like doing the dishes...
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