Post by Owen Y on Mar 27, 2019 18:50:22 GMT 12
Now this is one may raise the some hackles  But I suggest trying first before jumping to conclusions. Or, at least keep an open mind if you haven't tried this one. 'Cable lifters' / 'cable risers'/ cable elevators' have been around since the 80s (did TAS's Aunt Enid advocate them?) - this is raising your cables, speaker cables usually, off the floor. I've messed with DIY cabling quite a bit in the past, but I have to admit that I had not experimented (properly) with 'lifters'. If you have some basic understanding of signal conductors, you'll know that AC signals generate EM / electrical fields & I know from my own DIY cable tests that any sheathing, wrapping, bunching of conductors or any material adjacent to signal cabling, audibly changes the sound (the dynamics, the tone, harshness, texture, openness...). Many of us here in this country will have wool carpets & we know that static electricity too, likes natural wool. So those are various obvious & known reasons why cable lifters could alter sound. And possibly there are other factors, that are not so obvious or known. Enjoy The Music's Jeremy Kipnis reviews Furutech's NCF Cable Booster-Signal cable 'elevator' devices, and concludes: " In a quiet room with a well healed and set-up high resolution audiophile system, can make a difference that ranges from subtle to astounding; based on your level of system perfection and listening attention. " The Audio Beat's Roy Gregory (former founder & Editor of HiFi+) also review's the Furutech NCF Boosters... "... experimentation is easy in the sense that their musical impact (positive or negative) is so easily heard. Nor have I tried them in a system without finding a seriously positive benefit... simply applying them to power cords and speaker cables, they have become utterly indispensable. " If you're budget-challenged (we all are to some extent), just try some wood boards, wood blocks, string cradles, cardboard toilet rolls... whatever (I suggest 'natural' wood or paper/cardboard materials.) And report back your findings.   
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Post by michaelw on Mar 27, 2019 20:04:43 GMT 12
i use small boxes to lift cables off the carpet and provide some strain relief. can't swear to sonic improvements but it looks tidier, err, less messy 
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Post by colinf on Mar 27, 2019 20:08:10 GMT 12
I think cable risers can work because of the cables' tendency to pick up RF. If the cable is shielded the RF travels down the shield and it’s effect depends on the geometry of the cable, and the system. If they aren’t shielded the RF travels down both the + and - conductors in the cable, and leads straight into the equipment, which may or may not have RF filtering in it. I experimented years ago with this after I heard about it on TAS with the blissfully eccentric Aunt Enid, as Owen mentions. I had a battery powered portable oscilloscope and started touching surfaces with the probe while I touched the oscilloscope ground, using my body as the imperfect opposing part of a balanced antenna. It was eye-opening how much RF was around on surfaces, and still is! Anything to cut back RF pickup is a good idea and cable risers reduce the pickup from surface to cable to an extent. The results are highly variable and depend on a lot of specifics with the system. Such as cable electrical resonance, cable position (a bit like moving an FM antenna for the best or weakest reception) etc. For that reason I’m passionate about using short cables to minimise the area of cable to pick up RF, and to keep them away from surfaces the stereo might be sitting on, unless they are grounded. But even that has variable results as RF from cell phone towers and WiFi transmitters have very short wavelengths and short cables can pick that up just as easily as long cables. The antenna in your cell phone is just a few centimetres long and picks up a signal just fine! If you’re lucky enough to live in an area with low amounts of RF, away from cell phone towers etc, I guess cable risers might not change the sound much.
AMR-iFi R&D
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Post by Owen Y on Mar 28, 2019 9:05:56 GMT 12
RF noise pickup, static electricity, EM field distortions, capacitive effects of adjacent materials.... Another factor too, possibly, is the sensitivity / impedance of your l'spkrs, ie. the amount of current the cables are req'd to carry. OTOH ICs are sensitive because they carry v low signals, ie in in proportion to potential noise & other undesirable effects.
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Post by cartridgeguyonline on Mar 28, 2019 16:50:09 GMT 12
I've tried using toilet rolls. Particularly for seperating power and interconnect cables where it gets messy. Seemed like a sensible thing to do, but would describe the end result as an earth shattering difference.
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Post by michaelw on Mar 28, 2019 17:01:45 GMT 12
would or wouldn't ?
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Post by Citroen on Mar 28, 2019 17:28:11 GMT 12
Tried cable lifters (old ceramic power cable insulators)  but didn't notice any difference in sound quality in my system at that time.
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Post by Graham on Mar 28, 2019 20:54:41 GMT 12
I experimented briefly with toilet roll tubes but didn't notice any improvement, so quickly removed them in case someone was watching !!! 
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Post by cartridgeguyonline on Mar 29, 2019 7:27:22 GMT 12
Sorry Typo. Wouldnt describe the difference as earth shattering.
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Post by Owen Y on Mar 30, 2019 8:40:34 GMT 12
[ sub - I've shifted your system troubleshooting to a fresh dedicated thread, I trust that this is OK ]
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Post by andrewp on May 4, 2019 10:52:23 GMT 12
Cable lifters ....come on guys. Really!... These things were invented by some boffin who had just been sacked from a circle inventing factory in deepest Whoknoswheresville. Maybe as was mentioned somewhere earlier they can relieve cable strain which obviously is a good idea but as far as paying a stack of cash to have mini power power stations scattered around the floor for sound improvement. Im sure there will be stats from some reviewer rattling on about how they improved the depth of bass and the cleanliness of the trebble.... because he/she could see them so obviously there was improvement.... or maybe their wallet was being embellished.Im sure they make for conversation at Christmas dinners so maybe they have achieved their mission after all.
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Post by foveaux on May 5, 2019 11:01:55 GMT 12
An opportunity for Schitt to get into this market? 
"I see music as a lifetime affair." [Rory Gallagher]
"Free - I miss that band, but when I look back, we were very young" [Paul Rodgers]
862 posts
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Pundit
Post by neilsan on May 5, 2019 19:02:16 GMT 12
No good for us anyhow Andrew,with some of our speaker cables going under floor!
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Post by andrewp on May 6, 2019 19:24:30 GMT 12
Aw now Mr Foveaux ....that is very well done. And what a totally wonderful genius stroke that was with their company name!
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Post by Owen Y on Jun 2, 2019 20:08:31 GMT 12
George Cardas uses little blocks of wood (Maple? Myrtle?). See at 1:03...
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Post by Owen Y on Jun 17, 2019 23:30:07 GMT 12
Well, just to add fuel to fire, I tried lifting my loudspeaker cables off the carpet tonight. (My loudspeaker cables are DIY solid core cables, 3.5-4m long, with only 1.5m or so draping down along the floor.) I definitely hear a difference (say significant enough to pick out blind on familiar music)... but whether it is better or worse may be like some other 'tweaks', it may depend on personal taste. Playing Saint Saens' Symphony No.3 (The Organ Symphony, the 2nd movement with all those piano runs & string plucks, in the background)... with the cables lifted on 4pcs of 16mm thick x 80 x 120 blocks of MDF on edge, the sound is a bit fatter, airier, more 'expansive' in 'scale'. On the floor, the sound is tauter, tighter. Initially I preferred the 'clarity' of the latter, but changed my mind, I've left cables on the blocks for now. Stay tuned. [ edited, as post below] YMMV of course. Some of you will want to send the people in white coats around
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Post by Citroen on Jun 18, 2019 0:52:08 GMT 12
Yep, 
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Post by colinf on Jun 18, 2019 18:57:40 GMT 12
Owen, that sounds like the experience of reducing RF in the system. Added RF seems to make the system a touch clearer, but might actually be adding unwanted harshness.
AMR-iFi R&D
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Post by Owen Y on Jun 18, 2019 21:09:30 GMT 12
Playing Rachmaninov's Piano Conc No.2, Earl Wild/Horenstein/RPO, Chesky Records... My memory IS definitely going, I was actually playing St Saens' Symphony No.3 (The Organ Symphony), the 2nd movement with all those piano runs & string plucks, in the background.
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Post by Owen Y on Jun 25, 2019 20:45:38 GMT 12
I love the 'airiness', spaciousness & low level ambience of the cable off the floor - they'll stay that way. My cables are unsheathed 'transformer winding wire' (as mentioned above) & YMMV I'm sure depending on your cable type. But if you've tried it and remain ambivalent and/or unimpressed... that's cool, at least you've tried it.
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Post by Owen Y on Jun 27, 2019 11:05:14 GMT 12
Here they are, chocked up on just pcs of MDF on edge... 
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Post by Owen Y on Sept 29, 2020 8:51:44 GMT 12
AUDIOQUEST Fog Lifters - 'cable-lifters' tested by Marshall Nack (POSITIVE FEEDBACK): " a surprisingly effective, very affordable RFI remedy, act like focusing lenses and ratchet up definition. " " why these in particular are so powerful I'm at a loss to explain " AUDIOQUEST believe that most cable-lifters are too short, so their product is 6.25" (~16cm) tall - to reduce " the RF noise that capacitively couples into cables through all solid materials" like floor carpet, wood, tiles etc. They are made for use with audio and AC power cables (which sounds reasonable, as both of these carry an 'Alternating Current'). " If you’re thinking “my cables are shielded, so there is no noise problem,” you’re partially correct—but at the high frequencies we’re bathed in thanks to cellular, Wi-Fi, etc., conventional shielding does not stop RF Noise from being capacitively coupled into signal-carrying conductors..." (See AUDIOQUEST Fog Lifters webpage.) These fellas are only US$149.95 for a set (8pcs), so there's no excuse A lot of $$ for bits of plastic + nylon cord? Make your own .  
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Post by Citroen on Sept 29, 2020 10:23:43 GMT 12
NZ$0.60 from Aliexpress 
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Post by Owen Y on Sept 29, 2020 10:40:20 GMT 12
Those ones would also have the bonus advantage of going with your antique Qing Dynasty lounge furniture
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Post by Citroen on Sept 29, 2020 10:55:39 GMT 12
About 20x more expensive, but would even better suit the oriental theme 
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Post by foveaux on Sept 29, 2020 11:02:37 GMT 12
Will sound degradation issues of susceptible cable/interconnx eventually drive us to wireless? Oops! ...there goes the 'high-wire' charlatan firms
"I see music as a lifetime affair." [Rory Gallagher]
"Free - I miss that band, but when I look back, we were very young" [Paul Rodgers]
862 posts
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Pundit
Post by peter0c on Sept 29, 2020 12:37:12 GMT 12
heh guys, has anyone tried draping them over their walking frames? Placed on gliders of course.
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Post by andrewp on Sept 29, 2020 20:27:00 GMT 12
So... I think its alot of voodoo from manufacturers and reviewers alike looking after their own incomes telling us that by lifting leads off the floor bass will be tighter,highs will be sharper bla bla...ok in fairness if said lifting devices involve some used loo roll (must be plain 3 ply though) then whats the harm. I do think by supporting heavy power cables from lead bend then that IS a good idea!
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Post by Owen Y on Sept 29, 2020 20:48:07 GMT 12
I was skeptical too & I do NOT hear the same effects as the POSITIVE FEEDBACK reviewer, but I DO hear clear improvements. So I will be following up the AQ ideas, to see for myself. I'd encourage others to try - what's to lose? Being labelled an Audiophile?
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Post by foveaux on Sept 30, 2020 8:54:02 GMT 12
I'd encourage others to try - what's to lose? Being labelled an Audiophile? as always, 'horses for courses' and/or being labelled an Audiophool?
"I see music as a lifetime affair." [Rory Gallagher]
"Free - I miss that band, but when I look back, we were very young" [Paul Rodgers]
862 posts
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