have you got a 1210 ?

A pair of them, DJ battle-hardened - Jeremy's.

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shure m44 cartridges ?



i had a 1200 m5g, it was pretty awful... not a patch on my sl7

neither get close to the sp10

Sounds like a new thread & investigation coming up for later.....

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Round 2 & the Salvation-Terminator turntable fights back!

With 40-50 hours now on the LCR Gold phono stage, the teflon caps brightness has mellowed.

Without the previous hyper-detail, the sound loses some of 'leading edge' transparency & 'snap'.

I remember why I began to lose interest in MC cartridges, the Transfiguration & Koetsu 'paint a picture' whereas with the Decca London MM/MI cartridge, the musicians are 'real', 'live' & 'in the room'. Trading off MCoil 'airiness' & 'beauty', for more up-front rhythm, 'solidity' & 'body' to it all.

Now to get the London Decca onto the SP-10....

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First, the Apparition 12" tonearm comes off - easy with a unipivot.

The arm-mount block (truncated version to suit SP-10) for the Terminator linear tracker is bolted through the SP-10 plinth.

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The Terminator is screwed down & cartridge then fitted to the Terminator arm wand.

I'll go with a Miyajima Kansui MC cartridge first up.
The Miyajima did not sound, to me, at it's best on the Apparition - maybe too much wood? (Cocobolo wood tonearm + Zebrawood cartridge.)

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After the usual set-up ritual of VTF, VTA, alignment, recheck VTF, azimuth...
Connect up to a FRT-4 SUT & the Lounge LCR phono stage... we have music.

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great job, did jeremy make the arm block ?

good music too

Excellent!

So now that you've heard the Terminator on the SP10, any initial thoughts compared to on the Salvation?

BTW, looks like that LP has a slight wobble?

Aug 1, 2019 12:19:28 GMT 12 Owen Y said:

After the usual set-up ritual of VTF, VTA, alignment, recheck VTF, azimuth...
Connect up to a FRT-4 SUT & the Lounge LCR phono stage... we have music.

Excellente! 

Aug 1, 2019 14:44:37 GMT 12 michaelw said:

great job, did jeremy make the arm block ?

Yes, i got him to chop a bit off, so that I could mount the arm base as close as possible to the platter, despite the SP-10's rectangular surround.

good music too

Ah yes, since this LP is displayed on Miyajima's Reference System page, I figured that I had to get at least this record sounding decent
(Not a Kenneth Wilkinson job though, AFAIK )

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Aug 1, 2019 15:48:15 GMT 12 Citroen said:

Excellent!

So now that you've heard the Terminator on the SP10, any initial thoughts compared to on the Salvation?

BTW, looks like that LP has a slight wobble?

I'll need quite a few more LPs to get a feel for the TT differences, I've been changing a lot of things lately & short term aural memory is not reliable. At least they are not poles apart, is the initial feeling. Which could be sad for the Salvation, because the Technics has user-friendliness well in it's favour - instant start-up & stop, speed stability.

As said, I am surprised by the performance of the SP-10 in this plinth - the latter does contribute some sound, I can hear it, colouration arguably, but I like it - the slight resonance, tone colour, harmonic 'decay' that this semi-hollow, plinth seems to give. Again, I will assess, before trying some of the SP-10 mechanical mods mentioned earlier in this saga.

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Aug 1, 2019 15:48:15 GMT 12 Citroen said:

BTW, looks like that LP has a slight wobble?

Indeed, correct.
Incidentally, that red Decca LP is a Dutch Decca label - I compared later with an English Decca (black label) that I have of same recording & of course, the English pressing sounds better (I remembered later that some experts had said the same thing).

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Further auditioning...

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Aug 1, 2019 21:00:05 GMT 12 Owen Y said:

Aug 1, 2019 15:48:15 GMT 12 Citroen said:

Excellent!

So now that you've heard the Terminator on the SP10, any initial thoughts compared to on the Salvation?

BTW, looks like that LP has a slight wobble?

I'll need quite a few more LPs to get a feel for the TT differences, I've been changing a lot of things lately & short term aural memory is not reliable. At least they are not poles apart, is the initial feeling. Which could be sad for the Salvation, because the Technics has user-friendliness well in it's favour - instant start-up & stop, speed stability.

As said, I am surprised by the performance of the SP-10 in this plinth - the latter does contribute some sound, I can hear it, colouration arguably, but I like it - the slight resonance, tone colour, harmonic 'decay' that this semi-hollow, plinth seems to give. Again, I will assess, before trying some of the SP-10 mechanical mods mentioned earlier in this saga.

The 'colouration' should not be regarded pejoratively.  The contribution from a hardwood should be slightly beneficial.  Oboes, Clarinets, black piano keys, for example are made from ebony and the material contributes to the sound.  An ebony or mpingo headshell, armboard, or record stabilizer should also make a small contribution.

SL1210 - yes indeed, I tend to agree.

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One should never make lazy assumptions in audio.

Mag-lev footers which worked so well I thought, under my Salvation TT, were installed under this new Technics SP-10 plinth.

After some listening, I've decided that the SP-10 lacked something, that it is capable of more.

Cutting a long story short... 3 solid block supports, instead of 4 mag-lev footers, give MUCH better 'scale', agility & dynamic subtlety, resolution.

Jerry Miller's guitar sustain sounds so much more 'alive' on this Eilen Jewell disc & on the classic Baez 'Diamonds and Rust', image scale & height is improved incredibly, with great HF extension, 'snap' & vocal openness. Bass is deep & clear.

I'll now play with positioning of the block supports on various sides of the plinth, as this semi-hollow, non-solid plinth, seems to sound best supported under its perimeter (rather than under the 9kg SS baseplate, which made the sound a touch edgy & uncomfortable). I am reminded of when I messed with perimeter supports under my Linn Sondek plinth.

It always take a while to optimise any significant system chage.

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The laminated ply blocks, with mag-lev footers nested inside - as originally installed.

(Now, the mag-levs have been taken out, the blocks inverted & only 3 blocks used.)

Of course, as with any TT & tonearm, I had to use shims to level the TT - especially with an air-bearing, linear tracking arm, the 'slider' needs to be absolutely level in order to 'float' & track properly.

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Interesting finds Owen.

I wonder what makes the mag-levs not sound good with your SP-10.

Have you tried 3 mag-levs? BTW, I use mine the other way around, with smaller diameter at the bottom.

fun fun fun

Aug 10, 2019 16:47:04 GMT 12 Citroen said:

Interesting finds Owen.

I wonder what makes the mag-levs not sound good with your SP-10.

Have you tried 3 mag-levs? BTW, I use mine the other way around, with smaller diameter at the bottom.

Good thoughts...

The other way around - I haven't swapped & compared. Have you found upside down better?
I note also that my mag-lev footers have felt pads on the bottoms. I had intended to remove these.

I also have not tried 3 mag-levs instead of 4 - I should, but instinctively, I felt that these footers were not working with this TT & plinth.

My thoughts at the moment:
1) The Salvation TT had a solid slate plinth, to which the tonearm is fixed directly, whereas this SP-10 is in a semi-hollow wood plinth.
2) The Salvation TT was rim-driven, whereas the SP-10 is DDrive (high torque, concentric mtr) & servo controlled (constant feedback correction).

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I tried 4 cf 3 mag-levs and while I couldn't hear any difference, with 4 it was more stable to my mind.

With them inverted I found the sound slightly but noticeably tighter sounding. No idea why, or if it was merely placebo, as it was also more visually pleasing to me.

Go with your gut. I say that even if it's not "absolutely" right, it's "right" for you if it's your preference.

Yes, I always say that it's a learning thing, building up your own 'library' of cause-effect knowledge (gutfeel if you like) that you can intuitively call upon every time.

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A bit of a feel for the Joan Baez on this TT setup...

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very nice

Lovely, will need to get into Joan Baez now!
The mids seem to have that nice open sound. It would have been nice to see your current speakers in action as well!

AMR-iFi R&D

My video technique is worse than Fremer's (sorry Mike )
I hope no-one's getting seasick

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With the severe wind and seawater-loaded rain we had yesterday, your video technique seems just fine! 🌊

AMR-iFi R&D

A nice dedication to Bob, but probably the great man was not impressed.

A little more fiddling with supports positioning, but my feeling now is that I will get back inside the SP-10, to address (or test, really) some arguable mechanical 'shortcomings'.

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