Post by jerm on May 10, 2021 20:43:47 GMT 12
that cast iron plinth must ring like a bell, strategically placed damping no doubt I think cast iron actually has a very high damping capacity, possibly why they choose to use that, as well as the obvious high mass. I do really like some of the aesthetic elements of the OMA designs.
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Post by RdM on May 10, 2021 22:49:02 GMT 12
Wish my tt had a nice wood finish instead of battleship grey. Getting a bit sick of the same sight after 12 years. Unfortunately the design doesn't lend its self to easy change so I perve and dream of exotic timbers.
What is your TT again? I see some old pics here:
If it's the same, it seems hardly any chassis to alter?
For a few moments, I was thinking back to paint effects, faux marbling, or making it look like wood or stone.
30+ years ago I was playing with those effects, oil paint, greenish marble on the desk here, previous bench tops.
Like this. I liked the green marble at the time, still do.
Others might prefer creamy gray, Carrara marble maybe. Nevertheless, the paint techniques are the thing.
You can search out possible paint effects. Marble, Granite. Wood Grain.
Marbling Reference Books
Some random other links
and not so great, but for comparison;- you need to do your own research re paint effects.
Anyway, another way to decorate a plinth? There are many more.
Or else just accept it as is? ;=})
Cheers !!
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Pundit
Post by Dom on May 11, 2021 14:08:46 GMT 12
Looks nice. Remember Graham makes nice plinths too… He certainly does. Go local!
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Post by cartridgeguyonline on May 11, 2021 17:45:27 GMT 12
Nothing at all wrong with the sound of the gyro, it was the best sounding turntable I could find at the time and theres still nothing I would prefer sonically, but am well over the aesthetics of it...
TBH, it was a bloody good buy. Yes it was expensive in 1981 but have had over 40 years of near constant enjoyment from it, so hard to argue with that. The only other deck that came close at the time (so close I still regret not buying it at the time) was the Oracle Delphi.
I also had a soft spot for the Technics SL15 if anyone remembers those.
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Post by michaelw on May 11, 2021 18:16:45 GMT 12
Yep. SL10 with track access buttons on the lid.
I like these compact linear trackers too, my backup TT is a nice SL7 + Ortofon MC200
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Pundit
Post by harvey on May 11, 2021 19:16:05 GMT 12
Forty years is a long time, I'm not suprised the novelty has worn off! Love the look (and sound) of my Gyro, surely it deserves to be called a timeless classic?
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Post by RdM on May 12, 2021 19:47:21 GMT 12
Another (slightly mad?) approach: There might have been a commercial company doing things like this, I don't quite remember the links.
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Post by RdM on May 12, 2021 19:53:11 GMT 12
Somebody else (in Oz) making solid wood plinths out of layers:
.
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Post by RdM on May 12, 2021 20:23:08 GMT 12
"I like these compact linear trackers too, my backup TT is a nice SL7 + Ortofon MC200"Reading about the MC200 has been interesting. Thanks. Best last Ortofon I had was an OM10! I have an SL-6 with an elliptical stylus on the standard cart next to my Sansui belt drive TT. It's sitting on giant sorbothane feet. Quite a low mass platter. Goes through a switch box to the phono stage. Black shelves below have 2x 30mm mdf layers separated by ~ 3-5mm hard foam layer, truck bed stuff. I can pound a closed fist on it and nothing happens. Lower cabinet on spikes through carpet to concrete.
I assure you that it's level - some parallax on the photo.
The Sansui is running a Stanton 600EE broadcast cartridge until I can get a stylus for the 881. The Technics SL-6 seems rather lacking in bass in comparison. Not sure if the phono stage is up to it. I have been thinking about how to improve the plinth on the Sansui SR-222 Mk V. Low melting point metal alloys with weight, from bismuth and alloys upward. Rose Metal? Wow! More hard wood? Despite the piano black outside, it's a veneered box with slight braces inside. Just thoughts from the outside ;=}) Cheers!
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Post by RdM on May 12, 2021 20:51:24 GMT 12
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Post by michaelw on May 13, 2021 1:16:15 GMT 12
"I like these compact linear trackers too, my backup TT is a nice SL7 + Ortofon MC200"Reading about the MC200 has been interesting. Thanks. Best last Ortofon I had was an OM10!
My bad, mine is the P-mount version, TMC200
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Post by michaelw on May 13, 2021 17:02:21 GMT 12
A friend's restored Michell Transcriptors
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Post by deano1974 on May 13, 2021 18:40:03 GMT 12
Beautiful! I have always loved the turntable
Manager & Product specialist at Rapallo AV & HI-FI
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Post by michaelw on May 13, 2021 19:01:48 GMT 12
Might be for sale soon... The gold disc record supports are just back from the platers.
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Post by RdM on May 13, 2021 20:22:33 GMT 12
I must say that the original post/youtube video was educational and worthwhile watching in its entirety. However, here's another chap with comparable, perhaps even better woodworking and production skills. More an essay or article than interview, (scroll down past all the ads at top!) :- www.monoandstereo.com/2017/12/woodsong-audio-bespoke-turntable-plinths.html"Many woodworkers, and especially luthiers, consider the best wood to be completely air-dried, which takes a long time. I am constantly looking for beautiful boards with suitable grain for making turntable plinths. When a board enters my shop, it is generally rough sawn, stickered, and racked in a conditioned space. Woods like Ebony or Bocote are rough milled, immediately coated in shellac, and watched for months, or years, until it is ready to use. Currently, I have well over 100 plinth blanks that have been racked for more than a year and a half, and this 'palette' is growing all the time. Some boards have been racked for more than 10 years, and will eventually find their project."
"Commercially available veneers are generally 1/42" thick, or 0.08mm, and which, I consider to be a low quality option in almost all applications. This is by far the most common form of veneer used in woodworking.
I cut my own veneers, and surface, and surface them to between 1mm, and 3mm, depending on the intended usage. Thicker veneers allow for more 'easing' on the corners with a softer feel, and are less prone to catastrophic damage. Thicker veneers also allow for deeper sanding into un-torn wood, enabling the surface to be polished prior to finishing and really bring out the beauty in the wood. This might not sound like it is important, but when you see the difference 'in the flesh', there is no question of the higher quality result."See the gallery, turntables, and plinths sections at his website. www.woodsongaudio.com/
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Post by michaelw on May 13, 2021 21:45:14 GMT 12
Retro-fi is big business.
Good to see real craftsmanship surviving in this age of disposable digital commodities.
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Post by cooksferry on May 14, 2021 8:24:55 GMT 12
Wish my tt had a nice wood finish instead of battleship grey. Getting a bit sick of the same sight after 12 years. Unfortunately the design doesn't lend its self to easy change so I perve and dream of exotic timbers.
What is your TT again? I see some old pics here:
If it's the same, it seems hardly any chassis to alter?
For a few moments, I was thinking back to paint effects, faux marbling, or making it look like wood or stone.
30+ years ago I was playing with those effects, oil paint, greenish marble on the desk here, previous bench tops.
Like this. I liked the green marble at the time, still do.
Others might prefer creamy gray, Carrara marble maybe. Nevertheless, the paint techniques are the thing.
You can search out possible paint effects. Marble, Granite. Wood Grain.
Marbling Reference Books
Some random other links
and not so great, but for comparison;- you need to do your own research re paint effects.
Anyway, another way to decorate a plinth? There are many more.
Or else just accept it as is? ;=})
Cheers !!
Cheers. Some interesting ideas. Changing my plynth has a few problems. The original is MDF loaded with resin coated steel balls and incorporates magnets that work against similar magnets in the platter to relieve some of the weight from the bearing. I'd have to retain a similar shape to leave room on the rack for the outboard motor and 2nd arm pods. As it is dreams are still free and it's pleasurable to conjure up various designs.
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Post by RdM on May 14, 2021 21:38:15 GMT 12
What is your TT again? I see some old pics here:
If it's the same, it seems hardly any chassis to alter?
For a few moments, I was thinking back to paint effects, faux marbling, or making it look like wood or stone.
Cheers. Some interesting ideas. Changing my plynth has a few problems. The original is MDF loaded with resin coated steel balls and incorporates magnets that work against similar magnets in the platter to relieve some of the weight from the bearing. I'd have to retain a similar shape to leave room on the rack for the outboard motor and 2nd arm pods.As it is dreams are still free and it's pleasurable to conjure up various designs.
I was only thinking of exterior surface paint finishes. Of course if you have technology embedded in the plinth, you have to keep and care for that. Maybe surround it with, embed it in a larger plinth for two arms, keep it level, keep the tech?
Glad for the dreams myself! ;=})
Better sometimes than a sleepless night, or at least a change.
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Pundit
Post by achipo on Jun 3, 2021 10:11:11 GMT 12
that cast iron plinth must ring like a bell, strategically placed damping no doubt Not sure I understand? Grey cast iron is used for precision machines because of its vibration damping properties (and strength in compression). Damping would only improve the performance I'd think. Edit: Ignore--I just realized I responded to an old post (and Jeremy already made the same point). In the immortal words of Emily Latella, "Never mind"
Custom Lenco, Terminator tone arm, SoundSmith Hyperion, Pioneer PL70 tone arm, Miyajima Zero Wavestream Kinetics phono stage Aurender S10, Holo Audio May KTE DAC, Parasound JC2 preamp AtmaSphere MA-1 amps Benchmark AHBP amps Sound Lab Majestic 745 speakers Two Rythmik 12SE subs, DIY dual 10” sub with MiniDSP 550W amp AV Room Service EVPs under speakers and subs
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Post by michaelw on Jun 3, 2021 10:41:11 GMT 12
The grey aspect was revealed later Damping needs to be judiciously applied, all too easy to go overboard. IIRC you had a Well Tempered Reference ? That model got the damping just right but the same black platter on a regular WTT resulted in a turgid, lifeless sound
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Pundit
Post by achipo on Jun 3, 2021 10:48:21 GMT 12
The grey aspect was revealed later Damping needs to be judiciously applied, all too easy to go overboard. IIRC you had a Well Tempered Reference ? That model got the damping just right but the same black platter on a regular WTT resulted in a turgid, lifeless sound I had a WTT Reference. Nice turntable. My heavier, more damped modified Lenco L75 is mo' better, though. Of course the Terminator arm and better cartridges also contribute to the conclusion. I'm not sure how to deconvolve all the different variables. Acrylic (I think this is what the WTT used) for platters seems a good choice, as does concave with a clamp (also WTT approach). The high mass and constrained layer damping of the WTT Reference plinth also seems to be a good idea. I don't remember what the regular WTT was? Is that the one with the pressboard plinth?
Custom Lenco, Terminator tone arm, SoundSmith Hyperion, Pioneer PL70 tone arm, Miyajima Zero Wavestream Kinetics phono stage Aurender S10, Holo Audio May KTE DAC, Parasound JC2 preamp AtmaSphere MA-1 amps Benchmark AHBP amps Sound Lab Majestic 745 speakers Two Rythmik 12SE subs, DIY dual 10” sub with MiniDSP 550W amp AV Room Service EVPs under speakers and subs
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Post by michaelw on Jun 3, 2021 11:09:19 GMT 12
The regular or original was the one designed by Bill Firebaugh. It featured a plinth of three layers of MDF, separated by an unnamed mastic like damping material. The Reference was the work of Transparent Audio who took over production and "improved" it. My old WTT with Reference clamp, damped + re-wired tonearm
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Pundit
Post by achipo on Jun 3, 2021 12:15:00 GMT 12
The regular or original was the one designed by Bill Firebaugh. It featured a plinth of three layers of MDF, separated by an unnamed mastic like damping material. The Reference was the work of Transparent Audio who took over production and "improved" it. My old WTT with Reference clamp, damped + re-wired tonearm Hmm my WTT reference looks different. It has "dark star" or some such composite material that is very dense in two layers separated by a constrained damping layer. It also has a round motor that is freestanding and sits in a hole in the plinth. It is the Bill Firebaugh design. Here's a pic:
Custom Lenco, Terminator tone arm, SoundSmith Hyperion, Pioneer PL70 tone arm, Miyajima Zero Wavestream Kinetics phono stage Aurender S10, Holo Audio May KTE DAC, Parasound JC2 preamp AtmaSphere MA-1 amps Benchmark AHBP amps Sound Lab Majestic 745 speakers Two Rythmik 12SE subs, DIY dual 10” sub with MiniDSP 550W amp AV Room Service EVPs under speakers and subs
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Post by michaelw on Jun 3, 2021 13:08:33 GMT 12
Mine is an original Well Tempered Turntable, not a Reference, I just used a Reference clamp The Reference was based on Firebaugh's concepts but built by Transparent Audio, who revised the original design and expanded the range - Classic, Super, Reference. Plinth material was a Corian I believe - a synthetic material, commonly used as kitchen benchtops and sonically more inert than granite, slate etc.
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Pundit
Post by achipo on Jun 3, 2021 13:26:54 GMT 12
Mine is an original Well Tempered Turntable, not a Reference, I just used a Reference clamp The Reference was based on Firebaugh's concepts but built by Transparent Audio, who revised the original design and expanded the range - Classic, Super, Reference. Plinth material was a Corian I believe - a synthetic material, commonly used as kitchen benchtops and sonically more inert than granite, slate etc. That sounds right. The plinth is Corian-like, but seems much denser. Dunno, it's a great 'table, though.
Custom Lenco, Terminator tone arm, SoundSmith Hyperion, Pioneer PL70 tone arm, Miyajima Zero Wavestream Kinetics phono stage Aurender S10, Holo Audio May KTE DAC, Parasound JC2 preamp AtmaSphere MA-1 amps Benchmark AHBP amps Sound Lab Majestic 745 speakers Two Rythmik 12SE subs, DIY dual 10” sub with MiniDSP 550W amp AV Room Service EVPs under speakers and subs
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Post by Citroen on Jun 3, 2021 13:57:41 GMT 12
Didn't know you had an Amadeus, or were you just borrowing it for review?
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Post by michaelw on Jun 3, 2021 14:35:33 GMT 12
I owned a GTA for less than a week !
Most unimpressed.
Poor build quality, average sound, even more ergonomically challenged than the original.
Refund time !
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Post by Citroen on Jun 4, 2021 18:11:28 GMT 12
I only agree with you on two of the three 😜
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Post by michaelw on Jun 4, 2021 19:52:53 GMT 12
I missed a word... "Poor build quality, average sound, even more ergonomically challenged than the original."
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Pundit
Post by achipo on Jun 5, 2021 2:18:36 GMT 12
I missed a word... "Poor build quality, average sound, even more ergonomically challenged than the original." Yeah, but it had a golfball. A freakin' golfball! What's not to love?!
Custom Lenco, Terminator tone arm, SoundSmith Hyperion, Pioneer PL70 tone arm, Miyajima Zero Wavestream Kinetics phono stage Aurender S10, Holo Audio May KTE DAC, Parasound JC2 preamp AtmaSphere MA-1 amps Benchmark AHBP amps Sound Lab Majestic 745 speakers Two Rythmik 12SE subs, DIY dual 10” sub with MiniDSP 550W amp AV Room Service EVPs under speakers and subs
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