AUDIOSTREAM's Rafe Arnott tells his story of how he went from a Linn Sondek to streaming Tidal via Roon.

(AUDIOSTREAM is a sister publication to STEREOPHILE, under the AVTech Media unbrella.)

" Not only did the totaldac sonically trade blow-for-blow with my Linn LP12 at the time, I found myself firing up Roon – not the turntable – more often than I cared to admit. "

However....

" I tend to split my time more evenly between analog and digital these days, having had a born-again vinyl moment late last year when I realized how much I missed hitting record stores and the all the social and intellectual perks that go with crate digging. "

So, how did you get into streaming music & what was/is your previous/or current alternative analogue system?



Rafe Arnott's LP12.



A Roon Labs Nucleus+ has replaced Rafe Arnott's MacBook Air as a Roon Core.

DarkLantern blog - darklanternforowen.wordpress.com

Answer: I didnt. Have had a dabble but its just not for me. I find music to be wonderfully relaxing when I just settle in with an LP or CD whereas with streaming I tend to jump about all over the place often only playing each track for a short while before moving onto the next. I find it useful as a taster but after even a short session I tire of it. In terms of spending any money to improve the sound quality of it: no thats not going to happen either. Call me a Dinosaur if you like.

What the Dinosaur said....

ditto !

Another dinosaur here !

How did I go digital?

I started with a keyboard plugged into a computer, a MIDI interface in the 80's.

Moved through mp3, various DAPs, laptop computer music server to my current Bluesound device which not only plays my FLAC collection but also streams Tidal.

Often thought, do I need to take the next step and spend serious money on an Antipodes type streamer to get the feeling I get from my analogue setup?
Does it not do it for me because I'm not using the best digital gear? Or is it because I need a better DAC?

I've heard a few high end digital setups and as Marie Kondo asks, does it spark joy?

Not for me.

marie kondo is the anti-christ for collectors !

I’ve not totally switched over to digital, but Tidal has been great for listening to new stuff.
The seed for digital started way back in about 1981 when by brother bought a Microbee 16K computer and I used to code simple tunes in Basic on it after school and before he came home from uni. That got me thinking about what digital was with clock timing and the code changing the square wave interval for a tone of the right frequency and length. Then came the Sanyo CD player in 1984, it was great to see the disc spinning so quickly inside through its little window and the sound wasn’t too bad! Also it avoided the turntable’s propensity to wobble and skip while walking past it. 1988 and the Sanyo had been updated to a Sony CD player (with track readout and remote control!) in my father’s system. I decided to buy the service manual (all $35 of it!) for the Sanyo and eventually, after lots of frustration, managed to make a separate dac for it using a Yamaha receiver chip and Burr Brown pcm63 dacs. It was fabulous when it worked, I skipped around the house for hours when it did! I then made a valve current to voltage converter for it which elevated the SQ to almost that coming from my then-new (to me) Garrard 301, London Decca arm and Ortofon VMS 10e cart. Fast forward to now and I still use the Soekris R-2R dac, I like it’s natural sound, streaming with Tidal and Audirvana and still breaking out a cd on the Naim from time to time.
I too tend to listen to a little of a track when streaming and if I don’t like it within a minute or so it’s on to the next track. I’m still not sure if it’s good for the mind to do that or not. Should I let the mind see some good in it first before ending it? While listening to a record it tends to be familiar music so I sit and listen to the whole track.

AMR-iFi R&D

I have used digital streaming to a Dac for over 15 years. I understand the argument for collecting hard copy & own a fairly large record collection. What I don't understand is the reason to choose CD as a playback format. The spinning disc is a fundamentally inferior way to extract the software information stored. By all means own & collect the silver disc but rip to storage that way your disc will stay in perfect condition & you will have superior SQ.

Once programs like Tidal & Roon are used, you then have instant access to your entire CD/digital file & streaming service collections. With album art & artist bio info if you wish. A reasonable Dac & streaming device will sound better than anything but the best (most expensive) CD player. Roon is an amazing platform which integrates all your music into a wonderful whole.I have to admit 15 years ago it was bloody hard to achieve the potential SQ gains but now its a plug and play doddle. You guys sell yourselves short saying you are "dinosaurs" and cant work out how to do it. If you can type on a computer you can do it.

I had both record and cd. A couple of considerations at my end. Being robbed for disks..new and pre loved! Once youve purchased an album thats it. ..you own it. I bet Im not alone here where Ive purchased an album for one song and the rest of it doesnt fly for me.
Qobuz is fantastic. Hardware set up was less than 1k including a years subscription to Roon.

+1 Dinosaur here

1990 -     Yamaha CDX-530 (natural sound!) CD Player
1990s-    Napster downloads to PC. Such frustration: slow downloads and incomplete cut-outs. - ARRRGH!  I'd like a dollar for every hour I wasted with Napster.     
1999 -     Naim 3.5 CD with separate Flat Cap power supply. My current CD player. Inbuilt DAC is Phillips SAA376 TDA 1305, 18 bit; which I've read is classic and desirable. Sounds really fine to me.
2000's -   FLAC files onto PC, mostly from code access downloads with vinyl album buys, but many from a generous friend (you know who you are Cooks)
2019 -     Spotify via PC laptop. Spotify came as deal with my wife's new cellphone. PC to Logitech bluetooth audio adapter to Preamp (second system). Or usually, PC to headphones.
2020 -     Streamer/Server: Innuos ZENmini Mk3 with LPSU separate power supply - just purchased, yet to be commissioned.
               This (ahem) 'leap of faith' buy was based on on-line reviews and Terry's summation. Like Citroen I was considering Antipodes, Nativ Vita etc. but chose a less expensive option.    


current alternative analogue (main) system:
TT -                Wand 14.4 TT/Wand Master Arm/Hana ML
Amps:             Sanders PreAmp, 2x Sanders Magtech poweramps + LMS (Loudspeaker Management System) digital crossover, Room Correction System, Digital Signal Processor, and Real Time Analyser
Speakers:       Sanders 10e ESL                    


Aha cartridgeguyonline: I also tend to a 'sample' approach with Spotify, because of the convenience while sitting, hmmm...however, the extent of the catalogue seems astronomical.


It's unlikely that Digital will replace my joy of physical ownership of Vinyl first, and then CDs.
And with the increasing price of new vinyl, our record collections will become even more treasured!  

"I see music as a lifetime affair." [Rory Gallagher]

Right on the money Beeman. I was a lot slower coming round to streaming than you, but burning my CDs to a hard drive, then going to Tidal and Roon, has been a game changer. And very easy to do. I still buy CDs from Penny Lane, but I haven't played a CD in a long time.

I sold my Esoteric cd/dac as I didnt see the point of keeping it...PO3..stunning player!!.. BUT getting it fixed if it ever pooed itself is a mission and very expensive!! Better to move it now then keeping it in my opinion. Funds went towards the NUC,Roon sub, hard drive, Sabre dac and a new shiney box from Gary. Im very very pleased.

Having a play with some albums suggested by a good friend here in my audio club. Van..The Prophet Speaks.. very nice album indeed. Clean,crisp and tight.
You blokes need to give this streaming gig a go!!

Foveaux, interesting. I have the ZEN mini 3 on my watchlisf on TM. Did Terry recommend a separate dac for it?

Apr 7, 2020 9:02:13 GMT 12 sub said:

Foveaux, interesting. I have the ZEN mini 3 on my watchlisf on TM. Did Terry recommend a separate dac for it?

Hi sub
Terry and I didn't discuss separate DACs. I don't have a separate DAC, so will see how the internal one goes first.
 
The Zen Mini 3 has an internal DAC: "...The ZEN’s Texas Instruments PCM5102-based internal DAC is expressive and generally competent enough to hold most listeners over until they can afford a really serious DAC offering a clear upgrade,..."  Darko Review darko.audio/2019/11/innuos-zen-mini-mk3-review/  see also: www.hifiplus.com/articles/innuos-zenmini-mk-3-music-server-with-lpsu-power-supply/

An issue for my internet/room/system setup, is that our internet router is in the garage (wireless to the house). I asked Innuos about best connx: 

"Thank you for contacting us with your question. Indeed all of our Innuos servers require a physical network ethernet cable connection to your network router/switch and do not provide a built-in wireless network interface/connection. The reason for it is quite simple: we strive to minimise as much as possible all electrical and radio signal noise interference within Innuos servers and therefore provide a cleaner digital audio source which greatly improves the overall sonic experience.

Having said that, you may workaround it, of course, by using any kind of network range extender, wireless or powerline adaptor, that provides a physical ethernet port from where you can connect your ZENmini via an ethernet cable. Please bear in mind that these devices require to be properly setup and maintained as they may also introduce network glitches or interference and be the source for many kind of networking connection issues."

My new network range extender is held up by the shutdown, somewhere between AKL and QZN. 

"I see music as a lifetime affair." [Rory Gallagher]

Apr 7, 2020 10:23:34 GMT 12 foveaux said:

Apr 7, 2020 9:02:13 GMT 12 sub said:

Foveaux, interesting. I have the ZEN mini 3 on my watchlisf on TM. Did Terry recommend a separate dac for it?

Hi sub
Terry and I didn't discuss separate DACs. I don't have a separate DAC, so will see how the internal one goes first.
 
The Zen Mini 3 has an internal DAC: "...The ZEN’s Texas Instruments PCM5102-based internal DAC is expressive and generally competent enough to hold most listeners over until they can afford a really serious DAC offering a clear upgrade,..."  Darko Review darko.audio/2019/11/innuos-zen-mini-mk3-review/  see also: www.hifiplus.com/articles/innuos-zenmini-mk-3-music-server-with-lpsu-power-supply/

An issue for my internet/room/system setup, is that our internet router is in the garage (wireless to the house). I asked Innuos about best connx

Hi foveaux, Terry replied to a question about wireless connection on his TM listing. He suggest using a wireless 3 pin plug adapter available from HN and jaycat.  Am tempted by the price, but reviews suggest using an upgraded power supply and that the onboard dac is a bit ordinary., and of course Innuos make and supply upgrades for both!

Apr 7, 2020 10:32:51 GMT 12 sub said:

Apr 7, 2020 10:23:34 GMT 12 foveaux said:

Hi sub
Terry and I didn't discuss separate DACs. I don't have a separate DAC, so will see how the internal one goes first.
 
The Zen Mini 3 has an internal DAC: "...The ZEN’s Texas Instruments PCM5102-based internal DAC is expressive and generally competent enough to hold most listeners over until they can afford a really serious DAC offering a clear upgrade,..."  Darko Review darko.audio/2019/11/innuos-zen-mini-mk3-review/  see also: www.hifiplus.com/articles/innuos-zenmini-mk-3-music-server-with-lpsu-power-supply/

An issue for my internet/room/system setup, is that our internet router is in the garage (wireless to the house). I asked Innuos about best connx

Hi foveaux, Terry replied to a question about wireless connection on his TM listing. He suggest using a wireless 3 pin plug adapter available from HN and jaycat.  Am tempted by the price, but reviews suggest using an upgraded power supply and that the onboard dac is a bit ordinary., and of course Innuos make and supply upgrades for both!

Hi sub
I have the separate LPSU power supply unit too.
I'm keen to hear the internal DAC. I suspect it will be more than fine for me.
Interestingly I have a Naim 3.5 CD player, and the folklore was 'upgrade to a stand alone DAC.'  Sounds great to me. Then later, those same mateys were imploring the Naim internal DAC was  'classic and desirable' sound. Go figure.  I'm a skeptical b'stard now I just trust my ears! 

"I see music as a lifetime affair." [Rory Gallagher]

I bit the bullet, foveaux, and hit buy now on the Innuos ZEN mini on Terry’s TM listing. Used ping payment, which I like for its TM guarantee and Terry listed it with free delivery. Which won’t take place until after lockdown.

Welcome to the darkside....

Hi guys..

One of the best things I did on my journey with Roon/Qobuz was to add a seperate power supply. I had borrowed a unit from a friend and wow what a difference from the simple and very cheap power connector I was using. The unit we purchased was via Amazon for around $150 from memory. BRZHiFi. Some Chinese brand. I was a little dubious but was assured that it had the good internals. Its a very smartly presented black box with a single blue led in the front. Its a heavy little beast. Its addition into the loop added more weight and flesh to the music. I wouldnt have believed it to be honest but I have to say I was proved well wrong.

That's interesting - is this a 'filter'? An isolation transformer?
Possibly a pic?
Does it happen to be pictured on these AliExpress pages?
(Details may be useful info for others in same position.)

DarkLantern blog - darklanternforowen.wordpress.com

Im not going to try and upload photos as Ive tried before and the process just drives me NUTS!!!!...No matter how many tutorials I get. It was purchased through Amazon. Im not sure what else it does Im sorry as that is outside my skill set. Its just a dedicated power supply. Maybe Neil M can hop in and add to what it does as he is one of my people..

I have used over the power line Ethernet connection to the main router. Its ok & often better than wireless but solid Ethernet cable is best

Ive got a blue cable also.. Currently under a large mat but it will get walked on so tomorrow Ill be drilling a hole close to the skirting and feeding it under the floor. My house was born in 31 and sits on piles [ok a little obvious I guess] Its a pretty tight squeeze to get the job done and Im not looking forward to it to be honest!!

Foveaux, I see from another post that your ZENmini is in use. How does it sound?

Apr 17, 2020 16:01:35 GMT 12 sub said:

Foveaux, I see from another post that your ZENmini is in use. How does it sound?

Hello sub
I am concentrating on ripping cds, but this afternoon/early evening used it for the first time as a player.
Using RCA interconnx. as that's what my preamp accepts.  I am impressed, it sounds delightful. As expected, the internal DAC is just fine too. You have chosen very well!

For context, I'm using my ZEN Mini in my second system at the moment:
  


The ZEN + Power Supply are on the bottom shelf (with a CD propped against 'em for size comparison).
Top shelf: Power Supply + Mapletree Ultra Preamp;   
Middle shelf: Ecofan 6A3 stereo power amp, Project Maia CD and (out of sight) ELAC B5 speakers.
(for train spotters: TNT FleXy Table shelving, Kimber 8PR speaker cables + my usual ratsnest of mix and match interconnx/ cables etc.! ) 



    

"I see music as a lifetime affair." [Rory Gallagher]

Zen mini 3, +/- external power supply, Linear Power Supply and Innuos USB re-clocker(a US$3195 USB purifier), with some comparisons to the Bluesound Node2i and a moded Sonos.

www.stevehuffphoto.com/2020/03/01/hifi-innuos-zen-mini-mkiii-review-with-phoenix-usb-re-clocker-and-lspu/

"I first compared the little $1249 Zen Mini III all by itself against the Bluesound Node 2i which is $549, both going into my Vinnie Rossi L2 DAC. I expected them to bring the same exact sound in my system as they are sending the same signal to the same DAC.

I was wrong.

I am feeding only the digital signal from the Zen Mini III via USB into my Vinnie Rossi L2i SE DAC which is a SUPERB $3500 DAC module. Here the sound is detailed, airy, wide and tall but a little leaner than the Bluesound.

The Bluesound going into my DAC via a Nordost Heimdall COAX (can’t use USB with the Bluesound) gives off a big large sound with a wide soundstage and a warm leaning sound. It sounds great and again, is a streamer for almost all of us, meaning most will never need more than this. It has rhythm and pace and allows the DAC in my Rossi to do its job all while providing a great app to control it all.

That is what it is all about after all isn’t it? Getting the bits to the DAC? Well, yes but between the Bluesound Node, the Sonos Connect and the Zen Mini MKIII each of them sounded different and not by a small margin."

(Ecofan 6A3 discussion migrated to Ecofan thread..)

DarkLantern blog - darklanternforowen.wordpress.com

I got curious in 2011 and built a dedicated PC out of spare stuff just to play digital downloads etc via fooBar and I think a Pro-Ject USB BOX DAC to begin with.

Nowadays I use a newer PC running JRiver feeding into a Marantz SA11-S3, I have a reasonable amount of digital and being able to scroll through it all on my phone/tablet is super convenient. It certainly makes sampling new stuff really easy. There are probably improvements to be had in the setup with more time and money but to be honest I'd rather spend money on my 301 and buy more vinyl.

Valve & Idler nut!