Post by Owen Y on Sept 22, 2019 18:42:21 GMT 12
The important thing - inside these plugs, the pins are 1-pc solid brass without joints between the wire connection & the external contact pin (like some 3-pin plug designs have). Yes, as neilsan says, the '15A' cable above is a tight fit into the IEC rubber entry sleeve, but the internal connections are no problem.
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Pundit
Post by neilsan on Sept 22, 2019 22:23:19 GMT 12
With those IEC sockets I bend them closer together,otherwise they feel loose when plugged in.
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Member
Post by mijoh on Sept 23, 2019 0:43:09 GMT 12
The 2.5mm flex is a lot harder to get into normal plugs and connectors,that's the problem with using it. You’re right Neil, the LoRad 2.5 would be too big for a standard C13 socket, but the Schurter plug I linked to above from RS Components is a C15 and the dimensions that matter are larger. A 2.5 sq.mm. wire might still be a little tight however. The plug will accept 2.1 sq. mm and an outer sheath size of up to 10mm. Click pics to see plug and wire specs:
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Member
Post by mijoh on Sept 23, 2019 1:11:09 GMT 12
Owen, I have also made some power cables with that 15A wire, but after listening to Paul McGowan I might experiment further. Shouldn’t the power cable be at least 2.5 sq.mm, the size of internal house wiring, why make the last metre a smaller gauge than the previous many kilometres it has travelled to get to our audio systems? Are our power cables like a bottleneck? I won't think about the fuse and that single strand that the power then has to squeeze through! McGowan found that the 12 gauge solid core internal house wire sounded much deeper in the base, but rolled off in the highs compared to normal “zip cord” which sounded thin by comparison, the stranded wire “zip cord sounded good in the treble region however. He got the idea of combining 12 gauge solid core with stranded wire which resulted in a great sounding power cable and he invites people to experiment for themselves by making their own and hearing the difference. Still, one wonders how adding a few strands of copper wire to the last metre of solid core, after the power has travelled so far, can make any difference!
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Post by michaelw on Sept 23, 2019 10:00:36 GMT 12
that last metre is the first metre seen by the audio component
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Post by Owen Y on Sept 23, 2019 10:06:03 GMT 12
Hi mijoh - there's a lot going on with a power cord (from wall to device) - I've found that power cords respond to cable design (wire gauge/type/geometry) in not dissimilar ways to signal cables. Leaving aside for the moment, issues such as shielding, power line 'noise', etc.... Why should just 1-2m of power cord from the wall make any difference? I don't know (I have some ideas), but it does, the differences are readily audible, not subtle. First of all, your device (amplifier etc) will have been designed at the factory ('voiced' if you like) to work well with at least a regular appliance flex as described above (although some high end manufacturers might supply their own stock cable). So, the standard '10A' appliance flex is usually the starting point (in NZ anyway).
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Pundit
Post by garym on Sept 23, 2019 10:22:52 GMT 12
Remember in the USA they are 110v so current carried is twice that here.
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Post by Owen Y on Sept 23, 2019 10:49:51 GMT 12
michaelw is right, I think. Why not use 'house wiring' as the device power cord? I have tried this & it sounds quite good - it sounds open, clean & warm-toned. But you may miss the 'bite' of the fine-stranded standard flexible power cord. When you look at the construction of 2.5mm2 'TPS' (tough plastic sheathed) 3-core house wiring, you'll get an understanding of why - ea conductor consists of 7 strands of 0.7mm dia copper. ie. Quite thick strands which are close to ideal size for signal conductor, if you believe in the 'solid core' philosophy.
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Post by Owen Y on Sept 23, 2019 10:57:19 GMT 12
Remember in the USA they are 110v so current carried is twice that here. Yes, in USA, with their lower voltage, they use I think, twice the wire gauge (think Ohm's Law, Watts = Volts x Current). Incidentally, the 'Romex' 12awg that Paul McGowan refers to, is a solid, single strand 2mm dia conductor wire & the 'zip cord' 12awg mentioned, is multi-stranded 30awg (0.25mm dia x 67 fine-strands). Paul talks about combining the above to make a good sounding power cord - this is akin to the CARDAS approach of combining a 'Golden Ratio' of different gauge copper strands within one cable, in order to create a wide bandwidth, good sounding signal cable.
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Pundit
Post by garym on Sept 23, 2019 18:38:50 GMT 12
Most of the theories offered are bunk. But they do sound different, whatever the reason.
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Post by colinf on Sept 23, 2019 19:27:02 GMT 12
I’ve noticed the difference in power cables as well. To me they make as much difference as changing the type of rectifier diodes and power cap brands in amplifiers. Which makes me hypothesise they are affecting the amount of HF or RF noise in the power supply from a few small resonances that add up, enough to excite distortion mechanisms in the amp. Those with valve amps can hear the difference in valve rectifiers, even between brands of valve rectifiers, not to mention the difference compared with solid state diodes. There are differences in fast recovery diodes, soft recovery ones, schottky diodes etc as well. Also the type of grounding of the power supply results in audible changes. So noise must be leaking into the ground/earth system as well, modified by the power cable. I wonder if anyone has attempted to measure if there is a change in distortion of an amplifier with different power cords? It would be in the order of the difference caused by changing an interconnect. The Melbourne Audio Club years ago experimented with grounding and power supply isolation and concluded that it made as much sonic change as different power cables. I haven’t really paid attention to the power cords in my system....yet!
AMR-iFi R&D
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Post by Owen Y on Sept 23, 2019 20:26:48 GMT 12
Power cords make a difference, FWIW let me offer an example... Back in '93-'95 I had a Linn Sondek with Lingo PSU. I tried a TPS power cord (as above), against the stock multistranded flex power cord & also a Sonic Link audiophile cord. I took some notes : Stock cord - clear & crisp, less 'bloom'. Exciting & pacy. Lightning fast & engaging. Curiously 'veiled' however (sparkle & voice). TPS cord - bass less taut, fuller, weightier, 'mellower'. HF slightly more extended(?). More 'open' but murkier? Sonic Link - 'sweeter' than stock cord, more defined, less soft violin, broader orchestral tone top & bott. TPS cord - bigger,less sharp violin sound, orchestral bass bigger also, more 'expansive'. (Later I stripped the TPS cord, lightly twisted & heat shrinked it. I tried doubling the TPS too, 'shotgun' style.) Why should a power cord for the PSU of a TT, affect the sound? As said, I don't know, but it most certainly does. Back then, I quite liked the TPS wire as mains cord, but nowadays (different system) the upsized '15A' multistranded flex seems to suit me well. The above are simply illustrations, not recommendations. So YMMV.
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Member
Post by dc4 on Sept 24, 2019 8:42:44 GMT 12
Must confess I have never experimented with power cables. I tend to think that the power cables provided by the manufacturer with the equipment (whatever it might be) must be perfectly adequate. I'd be very surprised it they were not. Not sure I'd be able to hear any real difference at all but one rainy day I might just give it a whirl for laughs. Years ago when my system was completely different (and I was much younger) I swore I could hear a difference after I cleaned the pins on all the 3-pin plugs using braso or something similar - perhaps better earthing?
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Pundit
Post by garym on Sept 24, 2019 10:56:45 GMT 12
Mark Jenkins of Antipodes has demonstrated the change in sound of a digital cable when the outer pvc sheath is removed. Perhaps constructing a mains cable from wire that is sheathed in some other material coukd be worthwhile trying.
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Pundit
Post by garym on Sept 24, 2019 11:03:15 GMT 12
And on the subject of turntable power supplies affecting the sound of the source... A friend in Sydney has a business producing various devices based around a constrained layer damping material. Les Davis Audio (Google them) have a product that you place under the feet of the equipment and which changes the sound... Under a turntable power supply for example can have a significant effect. Michael Wong I think may have recently heard this at John McDonald's place... Les's most recent addition, still in development, is what he calls "cap and collar". Here a wrap is placed around the cable next to the connector and at both ends. I heard the effect of this in a system we tuned before an audience on my recent trip to Australia. Quite remarkable...
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Post by michaelw on Sept 24, 2019 12:45:31 GMT 12
yes, i've heard the les davis devices in john's system.
been meaning to try some for ages, the new ones are a big improvement over the earlier version.
the cap and collar wrap could be a cost effective way to improve stock power cables.
has this been done before ? peter belt ?
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Member
Post by mijoh on Sept 24, 2019 14:00:11 GMT 12
Must confess I have never experimented with power cables. I tend to think that the power cables provided by the manufacturer with the equipment (whatever it might be) must be perfectly adequate. I'd be very surprised it they were not. Not sure I'd be able to hear any real difference at all but one rainy day I might just give it a whirl for laughs. Years ago when my system was completely different (and I was much younger) I swore I could hear a difference after I cleaned the pins on all the 3-pin plugs using braso or something similar - perhaps better earthing? I will speculate and say that most manufacturers don’t give a second thought to power cables, given the general skepticism about power cables making a difference to sound quality. PS Audio is one who knows they do make a difference and as far as I know they don’t supply a special cable with their gear... you need to pay (substantially) more for one, but for most manufacturers, it's a 'kettle cord' by default!
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Post by cooksferry on Sept 24, 2019 15:10:44 GMT 12
One possible problem with using higher end power cables as they're all touted as working best directly from a wall socket. That becomes rather difficult if you're like myself needing at least six outlets in a room with only two. I'm guessing that many of us end up with some sort of multi socket distributor unit like the Pure AV series or the PS Audio Dectect and there by potentially compromising any benefits.
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Post by sub on Sept 24, 2019 16:38:19 GMT 12
Cooks raises a good point. If the higher quality power cables are designed to operate best direct from a power outlet, that closes down options for many.
I have six components and only a double outlet, and I suspect many would be in the same boat. To fix that would involve some serious re-wiring in the house circuit!
Have been thinking of trying Owen’s idea of using a 15amp flex, but if individual power outlets are required for each component, would it be worth it?
FWIW, I’m not a disbeliever re cables, having noticed changes with different speaker cables.
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Post by Owen Y on Sept 24, 2019 17:23:43 GMT 12
I have six components and only a double outlet, and I suspect many would be in the same boat. To fix that would involve some serious re-wiring in the house circuit! Nah, just an electrician to loop another socket outlet off a nearby circuit. (Ideally, map all your existing circuits & keep your noisy & high-load household stuff away from your hifi circuit/s). OK, try a 15A flex first, that'll answer the Q. A bit of work, but inexpensive. Let's walk the talk, I'm looking forward to someone else's real-world opinion!
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Post by Owen Y on Sept 24, 2019 17:49:18 GMT 12
One possible problem with using higher end power cables as they're all touted as working best directly from a wall socket. That becomes rather difficult if you're like myself needing at least six outlets in a room with only two. I'm guessing that many of us end up with some sort of multi socket distributor unit like the Pure AV series or the PS Audio Dectect and there by potentially compromising any benefits. Possibly, but.... this is where I'd try the 'tapon' plug. (I knew an audiophile, probably one of the most hardcore audiophiles I've known, who could not easily install additional sockets in his concrete-floored,with solid concrete block walled listening space - so he used a stack of tapons on his only socket/s.) Not jointless internally, but short 'signal path' with a copper spring contact.
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Post by michaelw on Sept 24, 2019 18:14:43 GMT 12
i know an audiophile who has a fancy mains cable between wall and his ps audio power plant, then more fancy cables from power plant to components and it all works well !
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Post by colinf on Sept 24, 2019 19:42:12 GMT 12
Hmmm....Perhaps just use battery power? A battery pack could cost as much as a power cord for a source component and provide cleaner power. 😴 In Nelson I met someone who converted the sockets to UK ones from the wall and then used UK power cords. The pins on UK plugs are much more robust. I’ve just got all my NZ cords going to a NZ distribution board that then goes to a NZ-UK converter at the wall socket here. Time to get experimenting I think. UK plugs have a fuse (usually 13A) in them so I’m sure that will add to the sound as well..... Has anyone fiddled with noise-reducing power distribution boards?
AMR-iFi R&D
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Post by Owen Y on Sept 24, 2019 23:00:50 GMT 12
I remember when I changed from fuse wire to MCBs (Miniature Circuit Breakers) on my main distribution board (fuse board).... I was surprised at how the MCBs (Stotz brand at the time) made for a more dynamic sound, with more 'horsepower'.
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Member
Post by clothears on Oct 2, 2019 22:01:37 GMT 12
Not a fan of the PDL905 or any other plug that is perpendicular to the wall, as heavier cables can pull the plug out. I prefer the side entry plugs such as the PDL901 as the cable hangs nicely down the wall. Many moons ago I used a Belden 2.5mm2 shielded cable to make up power cords.
Making your world a better place, by staying at home most of the time.
Diplomacy challenged Electronic Security Systems Integrator
91 posts
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Post by Owen Y on Oct 3, 2019 13:46:10 GMT 12
OK, consider also the Cat.904 'Tap-on' - similar internal construction...
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Member
Post by clothears on Oct 5, 2019 16:45:41 GMT 12
Like those too, but routing of the earth wire is more difficult than the 901.
Making your world a better place, by staying at home most of the time.
Diplomacy challenged Electronic Security Systems Integrator
91 posts
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Post by andrewp on Oct 30, 2019 16:35:05 GMT 12
Hi guys..
Ive got a couple of power leads that I had made up for some gear that Ive now sold for anyone who is interested. They have Furutech plus and high end audio lead. They are 1500mm long. Im too stupid to know how to send a photo so if anyone is interested send me a pm and Ill email them to you.Ive tried photos through here before and just ended up getting too annoyed as the image was too big or some such thing..$300 each.
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Post by Citroen on Oct 30, 2019 17:54:08 GMT 12
andrewp try imgur.com/uploadBrowse, find your pic, upload, click on edit ( to make smaller if need be), then click on get share links. Click on Copy BBCode (forums). Then paste in your message.
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Pundit
Post by garym on Oct 30, 2019 17:59:24 GMT 12
This is not a personal recommendation but one from a friend. He claims that the power cables that can be sourced via Ebay for about $50 for 1.5 metres are a good buy. They look the part and have what look like very good connectors. Ymmv.
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